Capitalism vs. Socialism: A Soho Forum Debate

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ReasonTV

Жилийн өмнө

"Socialism is preferable to capitalism as an economic system that promotes freedom, equality, and prosperity."
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That proposition was the subject of a November 5, 2019, debate hosted by the Soho Forum, a monthly debate series sponsored by Reason. Arguing in favor of the resolution was Richard D. Wolff, an economist at the University of Massachusetts and the author, most recently, of Understanding Marxism. Taking the other side was former Barron's economics editor Gene Epstein, who is also the Soho Forum's co-founder and director. Reason's Nick Gillespie served as moderator.
It was an Oxford-style debate, in which the audience votes on the resolution at the beginning and end of the event; the side that gains the most ground is victorious. It was a packed house, with about 450 people in attendance. The pre-debate vote found that 25 percent of the audience agreed that socialism was preferable to capitalism, 49.5 percent picked capitalism as the better system, and 25.5 percent were undecided. Despite a technical problem at the event itself, the Soho Forum was able to recover the final vote totals, which saw support for socialism drop by half a percentage point and support for capitalism increase to 71 percent.
Produced by John Osterhoudt
Photo Credit: Brett Raney

Сэтгэгдлүүд
XiGoat
XiGoat 3 цагийн өмнө
God please shut the fuck up mod
XiGoat
XiGoat 3 цагийн өмнө
How are they both right holy shit hahaha
Roland Mösl
Roland Mösl 4 цагийн өмнө
Socialism has so many failed experiments. Capitalism has only one terrible failed experiment: USA. Capitalism shows how great it works in China. Capitalism needs a strong government directing it in the right direction. When capitalism lobbies take over the government, a disaster like in the US occurs.
Will
Will 5 цагийн өмнө
I'm not even finished watching the video yet, but I want to ask the following of anyone/everyone: I'm not sure which side of the spectrum this system would be on, but what's wrong with a society that works like this: You keep what you earn, just like in a capitalist society - with one important difference. The more you have, the more taxes you pay. So it's a case of diminishing returns and when you reach a certain arbitrary ceiling (that we can all decide on), say 10 million bucks or something like that, then you end up paying so much in taxes that you can't exceed that upper limit. Like trying to grab a big pile of sand, but the excess slips through your fingers and it gets re-distributed to those who need it the most. In such a society there would still be rich people, but no billionaires (we don't need them - like dragons hording a pile of gold that they couldn't possibly use in a single lifetime)...It wouldn't be perfect, but the imbalance would be far FAR less than it is now and the basic standard of living/existence would rise for every citizen. Furthermore, if you want to embark on some large-scale project that requires billions or trillions of dollars, like space exploration, that's fine because there would still be governments and private companies that collectively have access to those kinds of resources, but no single citizen would have more than 10 million dollars (or whatever maximum limit we decide upon). In such a world, you could still have Amazon, but no Jeff Bezos. It would require collaboration and co-operation. I'm not an economist, I'm a scientist (and a dreamer), but is this so unthinkable/unrealistic? If so, I'd like to hear why...
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Цагийн өмнө
That's the whole point of the type of socialism that Richard Wolff is talking about. You actually get to keep the wealth that you work for. Under capitalism when you work as an employee you do not get to keep all of the well that your labour produces. For example, in the United States there is a socially own bread factory where are the assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 per year. That's because the own the product of their labour. But when you work as an employee, and assembly line worker wouldn't be able to make anywhere close to that amount of money. That's because they do not own the product of their labour. It doesn't matter if the workers make $70,000 worth of product or 70 million dollars worth of product. It All Belongs to someone else. You've basically made that money for someone else. So if you want to Be Your Own Boss and you don't want to waste many years of your life making money for someone else, then you either have to start your own business or you have to join/start a worker cooperative. under capitalism most of the capital is owned by the richest members of society. and that's why they get most of the wealth produced by labour. They also get to make most of the decisions when it comes to what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid, what kind of environment people have to Labour income Etc. That's why wages are so low and why most things are made in China. It's no longer necessary to work 40 hours a week in order to provide all the goods and services needed in society. people have to work 40 hours a week or longer because wages are so low.
Shay
Shay 5 цагийн өмнө
You talk about the benefits of Capitalism but where's the success of Capitalist society in latin America, Asia and Africa ?
End time
End time 8 цагийн өмнө
GAH I absolutely love this debate excep mod, because the debators talked slow enough that I could actually know ehat they are talking about.
Exploited unlivable wage voluntarist libertarian
Exploited unlivable wage voluntarist libertarian 9 цагийн өмнө
Work hard for bullshit wages and make someone else rich that takes all you worked for. If you refuse you starve. That's capitalist freedumbZzZzZz
MakerInMotion
MakerInMotion 9 цагийн өмнө
"If professors were paid like bankers, they'd all be capitalists." -Jordan Peterson
MakerInMotion
MakerInMotion 40 минутын өмнө
@Michael Mappin Smarter than you.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Цагийн өмнө
Jordan Peterson is a pseudo-intellectual. He's a liar and a hypocrite. And that's not my opinion, that's a matter of public record.
Exploited unlivable wage voluntarist libertarian
Exploited unlivable wage voluntarist libertarian 9 цагийн өмнө
Peterson is a fake self help guru that puts his mouth were the money is.
Ed Campbell
Ed Campbell 11 цагийн өмнө
The first great successful "Socialist or Communist" revolution in the West occurred in the late eighteenth century in North America and was called the American Revolution, The history has been hidden by academia since about the time of Andrew Carnegie in the late 19th Century and the days of Child Labor and early union Busting, by ignoring the fact and parts of the Constitution and Original Articles of Confederation as if they never were. www.amazon.com/Cornerstone-Brief.../dp/1517257530... The reviews are all screwed up. Amazon refused to print a five star review yet allowed the writer of the first review to publish before he even read the book. Later he read the book and retracted the criticism that I did not know how to do historical research, but just did not like my opinions. The war for truth goes on.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Цагийн өмнө
@Ed Campbell , he doesn't read books. He only reads online content from prageru, Gateway pundit, Von mises Institute, FEE, learn Liberty, freedomworks, and Alex Jones Infowars. He might read that book if it came with a built-in dictionary. 😀
Ed Campbell
Ed Campbell 6 цагийн өмнө
@James Adams You might try reading the book before you make your stupid statements.
James Adams
James Adams 10 цагийн өмнө
The American Revolution was not at all socialist or communist. That is utter nonsense.
Antonia Saavedra
Antonia Saavedra 12 цагийн өмнө
Saw and heard this mans message.. I am crying right now.. I have been fighting for capitalism because I come from a family of business owners and always teach my kids to work for themselves.. Working for a company is basically slavery.. You give so much of Your self for peanuts.. As a self employed person I do basically nothing and get paid so much. I set my own hours and work for a few hours a day.. Its beautiful.. So of course hearing socialism i would be against it.. But what he says makes sense and I feel is the best thing for people.. I just can't even think right now..
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Цагийн өмнө
@James Adams , New socialism? What are you talkin about? The core concept of socialism is workers owning and controlling their own businesses and factories. And your statement regarding Richard Wolff wanting government control, that's simply not true and very dishonest of you. Did you go to the timestamp that you provided, Richard Wolff very clearly states that he feels that workers should be able to get loans from the government in the event the company goes bankrupt. that way workers and communities are not devastated by the impact. for example. mnpost.info/zone/pK6eaN_XhcmReaA/video government providing loans in cases of emergencies doesn't mean that worker cooperatives are about government ownership. That's just absolutely silly. Worker cooperatives are owned and operated by the workers. if you're against government loaning money, that's fine, but it's certainly not an argument against worker ownership. That's just silly. And then you have the gall to accuse other people of being dishonest. you're one of the biggest liars and hypocrites that I've ever come across. and I'm serious when I say that.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Цагийн өмнө
that's right! when you're the owner of a business or factory, you get most of the benefits! That's why workers want to own their own factories and businesses. just like this mnpost.info/zone/YrzKmavcr8hqnII/video I don't know why that's so hard for some people to understand. And I don't know why some people like James Adams have such a strong emotional reaction just like the concept. There's nothing to lie about. There's nothing to be dishonest to vote. It's just a very simple straightforward position. Under the capitalist system most of the capital is owned by the richest members of society. Therefore they get most of the wealth produced by Labour and they get to make most of the decisions. That's why wages are so low and why most things are made in China. however, if we can expand the Cooperative sector, that will be more conducive to a free market and thriving economy. It will also make it easier for people to start their own small businesses.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Цагийн өмнө
@James Adams , how about that? a statement from an honest capitalist. beautiful, isn't it?
James Adams
James Adams 12 цагийн өмнө
It doesn't at all make sense. Working for other people isn't slavery, and it also isn't working so much for nothing. It's a market for labor. You only sell if you value the labor more than the wage. Capitalism isn't against people owning their own businesses. The more sole proprietorships the better. That is perfectly compatible with capitalism because capitalism is just private property rights being respected. Socialism isn't what he claims it to be. It isn't more conducive to free markets or prosperity and never has been. It robs the productive and gives to the state, which is always at the heart of their ideology as Richard Wolff shows here at 1:30:00. There is no new socialism. It's the same old garbage as before: subservience to the state and ending of private property rights in the name of a utopian nonsense ideology. As a heads up, Michael Mappin will soon show up and start spamming Marxist propaganda because he's paid to support Richard Wolff. He's a pathological liar who tries to pretend like he knows economics and then spams nonsense instead.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a lying spamming Marxist shill who lies about history and economics because he's paid to do so. He spams the same false statements he's been making for over a year on this same video because he's paid to be dishonest and peddle an evil Marxist ideology. He advocates for communism and lies about capitalism on a daily basis because he cannot and will not read actual evidence or correct the lies once they are proven to be wrong.
James Adams
James Adams 13 цагийн өмнө
Now he's being such a dumbass that he's actually supporting communism and opposing markets. Talk about economic idiocy. This man is a shill and a liar.
Zygmunt Banaszak
Zygmunt Banaszak 23 цагийн өмнө
Prof. Richard Wolff talks with great passion, good job... The only comment I would add, is that capitalism wealth is built by the labour created out of migration of people from countries colonized by the capitalism. That in other words, we call BS of "multiculturalism". I would rather call it "racist migration policy". Capitalism owes everything it has, to migrants from other countries.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin wrong. Wealth isn't extracted you dumbass. Fuck off with your propaganda and lies.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 20 цагийн өмнө
Immigration, imperialism, exploitation, slave labour, child labour, Etc. United States has 4% of the world's population but uses up over 30% of the resources. That's why Africa and South America is so poor. Those continents are rich, the people are poor because most of the wealth gets extracted by imperialist countries such as the USA.
Zs Eq
Zs Eq Өдрийн өмнө
Capitalism is a kind of socialism. Capitalism: Private control more wealth. Socialism: Government controls more wealth. The rich needs to pay more taxes. These taxes are used to solve social problems. US hate China is not because of socialism, but One party system. Political systems and economic systems are different
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin "capitalism is being economic feudalism." No it isn't. Shut the fuck up shill.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin "Therefore they get most of the wealth produced by labour.' No they don't. Quit spamming this lie you piece of shit shill. The labor theory of value exploitation theory is wrong and you've known this for over a year.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 21 цагийн өмнө
@Zs Eq , achieving economic democracy wouldn't be difficult if enough people were aware of it. one of the problems is that not enough people recognize capitalism is being economic feudalism. It doesn't make sense to have an economic system where the richest members of society control all the resources and modes of production. workers and citizens should control their resources and production. Capitalism is more of a religion than an economic system. We need a system that's based on science, not religion. Study number 1: Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses. "The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness. It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries. Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues. The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms. When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit." The main findings from the analysis and review are: • Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive. • Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment. • Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently. • Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models. • Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms. ** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes." Here is a link to the research data www.uk.coop/sites/default/files/uploads/attachments/worker_co-op_report.pdf Study number 2: This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation! democracycollaborative.org/content/worker-cooperatives-pathways-scale Study number 3: This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”. www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/1995/01/1995_bpeamicro_craig.pdf Study number 4: An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself. www.uk.coop/newsroom/new-report-highlights-lessons-worlds-largest-worker-co-op Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times! CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018 ▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership. www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace.pdf ▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf 1. For example, these assembly line workers make $65,000 a year for putting bread into a bag! mnpost.info/zone/YrzKmavcr8hqnII/video 2. People feel United and actually look forward to going to work! That makes them more creative and productive. mnpost.info/zone/pK6eaN_XhcmReaA/video 3. Worker cooperatives are more productive than normal companies www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/ 4. More resilience, productivity, and equality. lindsayadvocate.ca/worker-cooperatives-a-path-to-equality/ 5. Democratic workplaces are far superior to capitalist corporations! cooperativesfirst.com/blog/2017/09/11/2017911how-co-operatives-are-better-than-corporations/ 6. People have more money, people are happier, people are more productive and more creative, and they feel more connected to their communities and environment. mnpost.info/zone/mtOfkLbcfLeEm6A/video 7. The Italian Region Where Co-ops Produce a Third of Its GDP www.yesmagazine.org/economy/2016/07/05/the-italian-place-where-co-ops-drive-the-economy-and-most-people-are-members/ 8. pandemic crash shows worker cooperatives are more resilient than traditional businesses. Worker co-ops are a more sustainable form of business, sharing benefits in the good times and burdens in the hard times. truthout.org/articles/pandemic-crash-shows-worker-co-ops-are-more-resilient-than-traditional-business/ 9. Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass www.electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/ 10. "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy." "US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location." Key points to highlight about American cooperatives: • There are 120 million cooperative members. • 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions. • More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population. • In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations. • Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion. • More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives. • More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware. US data on Cooperatives • 29,284 cooperative firms •654 billion plus in revenue. • $133.5 billion in income. • $3 trillion in assets. • 2 million plus jobs. • 120 million members. www.aciamericas.coop/Economic-impact-of-the-United
Zs Eq
Zs Eq 22 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin This video is a good ideal. But realizing this idea is very difficult. Maybe it will never happen. This is to classify people. The end result: farmers have their own leaders, doctors have their own leaders, teachers have their own leaders, construction workers have their leaders, scientists have their leaders, etc. All these leaders make up the Congress! I think this is what this video tells me. I don’t know if my understanding is correct?
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 23 цагийн өмнө
@Zs Eq , things are so unequal because under capitalism most of the capital is owned by the richest members of society. Therefore they get most of the wealth produced by labour. But if we can increase the Cooperative sector where workers own their own businesses and factories, then we can keep wealth where it belongs, with those who produce it and work for it. mnpost.info/zone/hq2Wfc3Sf8d4rZQ/video
Max Shoham
Max Shoham Өдрийн өмнө
"in one swell Foop!"
Ioana Isvanca
Ioana Isvanca Өдрийн өмнө
This is what the presidential debate should have been like quiet, respectful, and HONEST
James Adams
James Adams 10 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin Truth has nothing to do with getting funding you dumbass. Stop smearing like an ass and make a real argument that isn't outright Marxist propaganda from documented liars of economics and history.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin shut the fuck up shill. You lie every day on here. Like how you claimed that the debate didn't have to do with government and then you got linked to the exact time stamp where it is about government and then you keep lying about it. You're a pathological liar and propagandist. You're still spamming me with blatant lies and communist propaganda. You lie every day on here. You're a paid liar.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Өдрийн өмнө
the debate wasn't exactly honest. for example, what does Venezuela have to do with worker cooperatives? Nothing. Richard Wolff didn't recognize his own book after Gene Epstein describe it. 🙂 if Gene Epstein was really interested in the truth, that he wouldn't be funded by billionaires connected to the oil and banking industry.
Donald Trump_playsroblox
Donald Trump_playsroblox Өдрийн өмнө
The saddest part is.. online arguments makes us think that political debates are full of yelling and insults.
Chris Brackenridge
Chris Brackenridge Өдрийн өмнө
We definitely need to hear more of this where both side respect each other and listen to each other and agree on some things. What was the book "call" actually called and by who
UNKNOWN
UNKNOWN Өдрийн өмнө
No one seem to have mentioned that First; Communists, socialists, and all that bullshit that simply advocates a theft by mob, of the wealth generated by enterprising individuals, and that it primarily consumes it, rather then growing it further. And secondly that once this wealth has been consumed, and the economy had been run to the ground because of ineffective mangement management policy, that this mob turns onto itself and when it starts to consume itself, it then turns into capitalistic individualism "shaking" the shackles of authoritarianism. Thirdly That nothing stops individuals to structure its company in whatever system they want. While in Communist world, free enterprise is permitted only under strict control of the state and it is only a means by which the state apparatus can generate real money with real recognisable value internationaly from an international trade with capitalist, free enterprising countries only. Meaning that Communism, and socialism to "function" it inherently requires some free market economy to leach of.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin no they aren't. Shut the fuck up you lying shill. Socialism and fascism are on the same side. Quit spamming blatant propaganda. "Fascism occurs when capital accumulation and wealth reach a certain pinnacle" :LIE!
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Өдрийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , fascism and capitalism are on the same side of the political Spectrum. Socialism and communism are on the opposite side of the political Spectrum. Fascism occurs when capital accumulation and wealth reach a certain pinnacle. Adam Smith in his book The Wealth of Nations pray to do that government would need to be used in order to keep capitalism from reaching its limits.
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe Өдрийн өмнө
Also aptly describes Fascism
James Adams
James Adams Өдрийн өмнө
This.
Joe de Nathan
Joe de Nathan Өдрийн өмнө
"This was a good debate" Socialists 🤝 Capitalists
Christopher Gibbs
Christopher Gibbs Өдрийн өмнө
As usual the pro socialist makes a terrible argument.
James Adams
James Adams 13 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin this is you getting debunked on your obviously dishonest Marxist fantasy bullshit. Notice how you didn't make any coherent argument here? It's all just lies and spam, because you're a paid shill, not anyone who knows anything about economics.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Christopher Gibbs he's a Marxist shill and lying piece of shit. Michael Mappin is a paid propagandist whose sole purpose is to spam lies.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin no, capitalists aren't getting wealth produced by labor. Quit spamming this lie you Marxist shill piece of shit. Flint Michigan was caused by government, not a capitalist entity. Again you're a liar. Quit trying to talk about economics when you don't even know what economic equilibrium is. You've been shown that real wages and thus purchasing power have increased for workers over time. You are a spammer of blatant lies. Fuck off.
Christopher Gibbs
Christopher Gibbs 18 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin You keep trolling here. Move along because your disproven marxist nonsense is both childlike and morally reprehensible and will never be validated in your lifetime (or any lifetime thereafter). There is no equality in marxism. That is an astoundingly ignorant and dishonest thing for you to attempt to sell (unless you're referencing the equal states of poverty that all marxist adherents become reduced to). Enjoy your capitalist created social media on your capitalist created computer, and fool yourself into believing what you will, just don't expect that others will buy into your juvenile level delusions, or even read your attempts at selling them ((Lord knows I haven't). Be gone, troll.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 19 цагийн өмнө
@Christopher Gibbs , oh my god, dude, how many times do I need to explain to you that the type of socialism being discussed doesn't have anything to do with the state. State-owned companies and state regulations are completely different from worker-owned companies. two different things. no, worker-owned companies do not need capitalism in any way shape or form. Markets and capitalism are two different things. Capitalism is a mode of production. Markets or a mode of distribution. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. again, worker-owned companies provide more equality, freedom and prosperity for workers and communities. They are more conducive to a free market and thriving economy compared to capitalist Enterprises.
Raddad Noah
Raddad Noah Өдрийн өмнө
I loved all of this....except the "nazi" moderator.
Li Zhang
Li Zhang Өдрийн өмнө
I don’t understand why there is a debate over Socialism vs. Capitalism? Why can’t each country do their own choice based on their own situations? Of course there will be conflicts when two different systems interact, but overall, as long as their people are happier, living situation gets improved, who cares which one is preferable? It’s not a either or question.
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe Өдрийн өмнө
Which increase happiness and improves living standards: more or less aids?
Chai Chu
Chai Chu Өдрийн өмнө
Socialist never cares about what works, only what is good. I need more stats and careful evidence to take socialist points seriously, not more emotional phrases, or at least start with a clear definition before all the talks.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 3 цагийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , again, very simple fact. Under capitalism most of the capital is owned by the richest members of society. What are the consequences? Can you think critically? What does a free market mean in that kind of environment? mnpost.info/zone/eryuibzSosiaioo/video
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe 4 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin haha, fr this time bye. If you learn some basic economics I'll be happy to talk again
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 4 цагийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , of course you are, because you don't have an argument. your position is untenable. Maybe some basic labour history will make it easier. Capitalism is a modern form of slavery. That's a fact. Do you know what the difference is between a chattel slave and a wage slave? "if you’re, say, a journeyman, a craftsman, and you sell your product, you’re selling what you produced. If you’re a wage earner, you’re selling yourself, which is deeply offensive. They condemned what they called the new spirit of the age: gain wealth, forgetting all but self." "We might just consider the matter of wage labor. It’s pretty hard to remember maybe, but if you go back to the early industrial revolutions, the late 19th century, wage labor was considered essentially the same as slavery. The only difference was that it was supposed to be temporary. That was a slogan of the Republican party: opposition to wage slavery. Why should some people give orders and others take them? That’s essentially the relation of a master and a slave, even if it could be temporary. If you look back at the labor movement in the late 19th century, you see it had a rich array of worker-owned, worker-directed media: worker-written newspapers all over the place, and many of them by women-the so-called “factory girls” in textile plants. Attack on wage labor was constant. The slogan was, “Those who work in the mills should own them.” They opposed the degradation and undermining of culture that was part of the forced industrialization of the society. They began to link up with the radical agrarian movement. It was mostly still an agrarian society, the farmers groups that wanted to get rid of the northeastern bankers and merchants and run their own affairs. It was a really radical democratic moment. There were worker-run cities, like Homestead, Pennsylvania, a main industrial center. A lot of that was destroyed by force, but I again think it’s just below the surface, can rise easily again." ~ Noam Chomsky chomsky.info/theres-a-huge-desire-to-revamp-our-exploitive-economy-bubbling-in-the-collective-unconscious/ "The capitalist revolution instituted a crucial change from price to wage. When the producer sold his product for a price, Ware writes, “he retained his person. But when he came to sell his labor, he sold himself,” and lost his dignity as a person as he became a slave - a “wage slave,” the term commonly used. Wage labor was considered similar to chattel slavery, though differing in that it was temporary - in theory. That understanding was so widespread that it became a slogan of the Republican Party, advocated by its leading figure, Abraham Lincoln." What is the difference between a wage slave and a chattel slave? The chattel slave is sold once and for all; the wage slave must sell himself daily and hourly. "The chattel slave is the property of one master, and is assured an existence, however miserable it may be, because of the master’s interest. The individual wage slave, property as it were of the entire capitalist class which buys his labor only when someone has need of it, has no secure existence. This existence is assured only to the class as a whole. The chattel slave is outside competition; the wage slave is in it and experiences all its vagaries." "As long as he owns your tools (the capitalist) he owns your job, and if he owns your job he is the master of your fate. You are in no sense a free man. You are subject to his interest and to his will. He decides whether you shall work or not. Therefore, he decides whether you shall live or die. And in that humiliating position any one who tries to persuade you that you are a free man is guilty of insulting your intelligence." when you work as an employee, the boss tells you when you work, how hard you have to work, Etc. they can cut your wages, your working hours, they can even tell you when and how long you get to go to the washroom. "There are serious barriers to overcome in the struggle for justice, freedom, and dignity, even beyond the bitter class war conducted ceaselessly by the highly class-conscious business world with the “indispensable support” of the governments they largely control. Ware discusses some of these insidious threats as they were understood by working people. He reports the thinking of skilled workers in New York 170 years ago, who repeated the common view that a daily wage is a form of slavery and warned perceptively that a day might come when wage slaves “will so far forget what is due to manhood as to glory in a system forced on them by their necessity and in opposition to their feelings of independence and self-respect.” They hoped that that day would be “far distant.” Today, signs of it are common, but demands for independence, self-respect, personal dignity, and control of one’s own work and life, like Marx’s old mole, continue to burrow not far from the surface, ready to reappear when awakened by circumstances and militant activism." chomsky.info/nothing-for-other-people-class-war-in-the-united-states/ "Mass public education is one of the great achievements of American society. It has had many dimensions. One purpose was to prepare independent farmers for life as wage laborers who would tolerate what they regarded as virtual slavery." chomsky.info/20141201/ "The school, church, TV, & press are used to foster the ideology of the ruling class & indoctrinate the worker into accepting their system as the most natural permanent form of society." -- Rob Sewell "As I mentioned, public mass education was a major achievement, in which the US was a pioneer. But it had complex characteristics, rooted in the sharp class conflicts of the day. One goal was to induce farmers to give up their independence and submit themselves to industrial discipline and accept what they regarded as wage slavery. That did not pass without notice. Ralph Waldo Emerson observed that political leaders of his day were calling for popular education. He concluded that their motivation was fear. The country was filling up with millions of voters and the Masters realized that one had to therefore “educate them, to keep them from (our) throats.”" chomsky.info/the-common-good/ Adam Smith: "People read snippets of Adam Smith, the few phrases they teach in school. Everybody reads the first paragraph of The Wealth of Nations where he talks about how wonderful the division of labor is. But not many people get to the point hundreds of pages later, where he says that division of labor will destroy human beings and turn people into creatures as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human being to be. And therefore in any civilized society the government is going to have to take some measures to prevent division of labor from proceeding to its limits." • Noam Chomsky (1995) Class Warfare, p. 19-23. From "In the progress of the division of labour, the employment of the far greater part of those who live by labour, that is, of the great body of the people, comes to be confined to a few very simple operations, frequently to one or two. But the understandings of the greater part of men are necessarily formed by their ordinary employments. The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations, of which the effects are perhaps always the same, or very nearly the same, has no occasion to exert his understanding or to exercise his invention in finding out expedients for removing difficulties which never occur. He naturally loses, therefore, the habit of such exertion, and generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become. The torpor of his mind renders him not only incapable of relishing or bearing a part in any rational conversation, but of conceiving any generous, noble, or tender sentiment, and consequently of forming any just judgment concerning many even of the ordinary duties of private life. Of the great and extensive interests of his country he is altogether incapable of judging, and unless very particular pains have been taken to render him otherwise, he is equally incapable of defending his country." ~ Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations page 410 www.ultimorecurso.org.ar/drupi/files/Adam%20Smith%20%27The%20Wealth%20of%20Nations%27.pdf
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe 4 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin eh, I'm done with you. Bye
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 цагийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , I don't understand your statement. I don't know about other people, but I find it amazing that you do not understand simple economics. I also find it amazing that you're promoting capitalism when you don't even know what it is. do you have a library card? I have some reading suggestions for you. • (Beaud 2001: 41) , History of Capitalism archive.org/details/historyofcapital00mich • capitalism ( history/analysis) by Paul Bowles tinyurl.com/y6xqz7cw • O'Hara, Phillip (September 2000). Encyclopedia of Political Economy, Volume 2. Routledge. p. 71. ISBN 978-0415241878. ▪︎ Buchanan, Alan E. (1985). Ethics, Efficiency and the Market. Oxford University Press US. pp. 104-105. ISBN 978-0-8476-7396-4. global.oup.com/academic/product/ethics-efficiency-and-the-market-9780198285335 ▪︎ Gregory, Paul R.; Stuart, Robert C. (2003). Comparing Economic Systems in the Twenty-First Century. p. 142. "It is an economic system that combines social ownership of capital with market allocation of capital." trove.nla.gov.au/work/16915671?q&versionId=19853882
mike renza
mike renza Өдрийн өмнө
If there wasn’t so much government and they put taxes towards the right places instead of being greedy we would be better off. Some work hard and long and most don’t work hard and even more longer. I’d rather worker to get mine and help thru taxes . Put the taxes towards America not other countries
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin no dumbass, most people learn economics and know that your Marxist lies aren't facts. Labor is not exploited. You had this explained in detail on a Skype call to your face. It's not a fact. It was literally disproven to you in detail. Quit lying dumbass. Also it was proven to you multiple times how socialism is worse for the environment. So shut the fuck up until you read the citations.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , dude, most people are well aware that capitalist companies exploit both labour and the environment. Denying that fact is almost as bad as denying that the Earth is round.
James Adams
James Adams Өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin " Capitalist companies benefit capitalists at the expense of workers and communities." No they do not. Shut the fuck up, lying Marxist shill. "When you erode purchasing power, which capitalism does, then the economy contracts and less access to credit is made available." No, it does not. Quit lying and spamming blatant falsehoods you lying piece of shit.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Өдрийн өмнө
Okay, but what does that have to do with the debate? Capitalist companies benefit capitalists at the expense of workers and communities. Worker-owned companies benefit the workers and communities are more conducive to a free market and thriving economy. They make workers in communities less dependant upon government and billionaire corporations when it comes to jobs in consumer goods. They keep wealth & Control with the workers and community. When you increase purchasing power, the economy expands. When you erode purchasing power, which capitalism does, then the economy contracts and less access to credit is made available.
Benjamin Moore
Benjamin Moore Өдрийн өмнө
capitalist here the real question is which is more important economics or politics?? two words -political freedom!!!!- root of all evil comes down to "one man telling another man what to do." we will never be free as long as are civil rights are violated!! "when democracy fails you are poor, when socialism/communism fail you are killed!!" socialism/communism is for dreamers not realist!
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 3 цагийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , which video are you referring to? And when did I say anything about private property? What are you talkin about? 🙂
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe 4 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin You made an emotional appeal, right after you posted a video where the first false claim happens 2:12 in. The LTV was definitively disproven in the 1920s. The subjective theory of value isn't some opinion, it's the modern consensus among economists. Private property is an inherent human right, do you not understand that?
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 4 цагийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , and what is your point? Did I say anything about private property? No.but since you brought it up, it's important to differentiate between personal property and private property. also, people should only be entitled to the things they work for. John Locke's labour theory of ownership. you see, capitalism is about owning for a living. People take the money they get from other people's labour and then use it to buy more capital, which allows them to accumulate even more wealth from other people's labour. That's how people become billionaires. It's impossible for a person to earn a billion dollars. It is impossible for a person to convert their labour energy into a billion dollars. Keep in mind that labour includes both mental and physical efforts. For example, writing a book. it wasn't too long ago that Bill Gates bought the Canadian railroad. As a result his wealth went from 80 to 90 billion dollars. Billions of dollars that used to go to Canadian workers and infrastructure is now going to mr. Gates. When you erode purchasing power by 10 billion, that's not good for the market or the economy. Bill Gates then use that money to buy a parking lots and newly privatized Labs were people get their blood tested. now every time someone gets a blood test, they have to give up extra money to mr. Gates for the privilege. Every time you have I dollar going to mr. Gates, that's one less dollar you have to buy goods and services from your fellow workers. Bill Gates is also the largest owner of farmland in the USA. www.forbes.com/sites/arielshapiro/2021/01/14/americas-biggest-owner-of-farmland-is-now-bill-gates-bezos-turner/ isn't capitalism wonderful? anytime you buy something that was transported by mr. Gates Railroad, every time you get a blood test, every time you park your car at the hospital, or even buy toilet paper, you have to pay extra money to someone like Bill Gates for the privilege of being able to wipe your ass. and that's what capitalism is all about. owning for a living. that's why people like Bill Gates point out that if you can't figure out a way to make money while you're sleeping, then you're actually going to have to work for a living. he points out that the idea is not to work for your money but to make your money work for you. every time you have a dollar that goes to someone who didn't work, somewhere else you have someone who work for a dollar that they don't get. it's not too hard to track with the money is going. Most of the money goes to the owners of capital. capitalism is the economic system of parasites. We shouldn't have to work 40 hours a week. since the 1930s we've been capable of producing far more than were able to consume. industry can't even come close to running at 100% capacity. Since 1950 productivity levels have more than tripled while the need for labour has been cut in half. By some estimates, we should only be working about 10 hours per week. the problem is that sounds most of the wealth ends up going to rent and usage fees, because wages are so low, people have to work 40 hours a week in order to survive. but under this system you can only get a job when someone else is able to profit from your labour. there is a massive amount of work that needs to be done. infrastructure is Antiquated and crumbling. there's a an extreme dearth of needed services. so we have unemployed people the desperately need to work and want to work and a ton of work that needs to be done. We have more empty houses than homeless people. we have people starving while 1.2 billion tons of food ends up being thrown away because unless somebody can actually buy it, it gets thrown out. yeah, capitalism is a wonderfully efficient system of social organization. if you have a scarcity of milk and a million poor children compared to thousands of Rich cat owners, who does the capitals Market Supply? Where does the milk go? It goes to the cats instead of the children. capitalism destroys freedom for the vast majority of people on Earth. It destroys markets and economies. that's not my opinion, that's a matter of fact. mnpost.info/zone/ad7XptrKhaZ8eHo/video
Benjamin Moore
Benjamin Moore 5 цагийн өмнө
thx guys for supporting freedom and not tyranny!!!
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe don't bother. Michael Mappin is a liar and propagandist.
James Adams
James Adams 2 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a lying spamming Marxist shill who lies about history and economics because he's paid to do so. He spams the same false statements he's been making for over a year on this same video because he's paid to be dishonest and peddle an evil Marxist ideology.
James Adams
James Adams Өдрийн өмнө
@Maksie0 piss off socialist troll.
Maksie0
Maksie0 2 өдрийн өмнө
James, I really don't think you get to accuse someone of spamming when you're ranting about this guy literally every single day.
I’m just a Question?
I’m just a Question? 2 өдрийн өмнө
EPIC DEBATES OF HISTORYYY RICHARDDDD WALF VERSUS JEANNNNNN EPSTEINNNNN BEGIN
Veronika Benson
Veronika Benson 2 өдрийн өмнө
When democracy sounds dystopian, you know capitalism has rotted your brain
James Adams
James Adams 12 цагийн өмнө
@Veronika Benson all democracy is statist in nature. There is no such thing as a consensus after you reach more than some 1 to 10 people on most issues. AnCap is much better. Individual autonomy has to come first.
Veronika Benson
Veronika Benson 13 цагийн өмнө
@James Adams i don't approve of Statist democracy, I'm more of an anarchist. I don't really mean "representative State democracy" when I say "democracy". You're absolutely correct to criticize the democratic nature of the modern oppressive State, it will always choose who's life and say matters more than others, whether it's based on race or religion or whatever. The USA was born as a white supremacist country that only let white land owning males vote, yet called itself a democracy that recognized that "all men are created equal." The hypocrisy between the ideal of democracy and the real world oppression of democracy by governments and corporations is drastic. I would advocate for a truly bottom up democracy, with systems of organization that maximize freedom and lack of coercion while simultaneously maintaining order in accordance with the consensus of the population. Though it will take a long time and lots of community organizing to create democratic systems separate from that of the establishment, I still believe it's an admirable goal to strive towards.
James Adams
James Adams 13 цагийн өмнө
@Veronika Benson "no democracy can exist without some acknowledgement of human rights and liberties and protections of those liberties." Well that's obviously false as shown by history and democracies consistently violating basic human rights at every turn. If anything, lockdowns and arbitrary restrictions have shown that to be true. Not to mention the violations of basic rights through ever expanding welfare state programs and warfare state tyranny.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Өдрийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , if you use any racist terminology your comment will not post. MNpost uses an algorithm to prevent it. So be careful of what you say.
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe Өдрийн өмнө
@Veronika Benson where do human rights end, and majority rule begin?
Costa Rican guy
Costa Rican guy 2 өдрийн өмнө
Socialism will never work
James Adams
James Adams 13 цагийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin yes they are unique to capitalism, dumbass. It is literally in the definition of capitalism. Quit lying and spamming obvious falsehoods you dipshit.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Өдрийн өмнө
@Jack McCabe , private property and markets are not unique to capitalism. You don't need capitalism in order to have a market or private property. Those things existed long before capitalism.
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe Өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin Worker co-ops benifit from private property, a market, and unequal outcomes. All of that is quite capitalist
James Adams
James Adams Өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin nope. I understand English just fine. I also know economics and history which you routinely lie about.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin Өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , is English your second language? Maybe you weren't fortunate enough to be able to finish High School?
Koala Bread
Koala Bread 2 өдрийн өмнө
I don’t why the first guy is so disgusted
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 2 өдрийн өмнө
what do you mean?
Debby Holmes
Debby Holmes 3 өдрийн өмнө
Wow. January 2021 and the negative outcomes of socialist behavior, as described by the last speaker, are all coming true!?! If you started watching this video thinking we live in a Capitalist society.. you might change your mind by the end..
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a lying spamming Marxist shill who lies about history and economics because he's paid to do so. He spams the same false statements he's been making for over a year on this same video because he's paid to be dishonest and peddle an evil Marxist ideology.
Calvin Hobbes
Calvin Hobbes 3 өдрийн өмнө
Sure. I'm pro capitalism and would seem to be biased.... But the capitalist is the only reasonable and polite person on the stage.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
Can confirm. Socialists are pricks. When confronted with their lies and nonsense they resort to personally attacking the opponent instead of addressing the argument.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 3 өдрийн өмнө
What is Communism? Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat. What is the proletariat? The proletariat is that class in society which lives entirely from the sale of its labor and does not draw profit from any kind of capital; whose weal and woe, whose life and death, whose sole existence depends on the demand for labor.... Engels, Principles of Communism (1847)
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
It's garbage. Now fuck off communist shill.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 3 өдрийн өмнө
Welfare state, concept of government in which the state or a well-established network of social institutions plays a key role in the protection and promotion of the economic and social well-being of citizens. It is based on the principles of equality of opportunity, equitable distribution of wealth, and public responsibility for those unable to avail themselves of the minimal provisions for a good life. The general term may cover a variety of forms of economic and social organization. A fundamental feature of the welfare state is social insurance, a provision common to most advanced industrialized countries (e.g., National Insurance in the United Kingdom and Social Security in the United States). Such insurance is usually financed by compulsory contributions and is intended to provide benefits to persons and families during periods of greatest need. It is widely recognized, however, that in practice the cash benefits fall considerably short of the levels intended by the designers of the plans. The welfare state also usually includes public provision of basic education, health services, and housing (in some cases at low cost or without charge). In these respects the welfare state is considerably more extensive in western European countries than in the United States, featuring in many cases comprehensive health coverage and provision of state-subsidized tertiary education. Antipoverty programs and the system of personal taxation may also be regarded as aspects of the welfare state. Personal taxation falls into this category insofar as its progressivity is used to achieve greater justice in income distribution (rather than merely to raise revenue) and also insofar as it used to finance social insurance payments and other benefits not completely financed by compulsory contributions. In socialist countries the welfare state also covers employment and administration of consumer prices.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
The welfare state is economic failure at a massive scale.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a lying spamming Marxist shill who lies about history and economics because he's paid to do so. He spams the same false statements he's been making for over a year on this same video because he's paid to be dishonest and peddle an evil Marxist ideology.
James Adams
James Adams 17 цагийн өмнө
@Andrea Oceania Region there are numerous sources, but the only ones worth their salt isolate the money in politics as opposed to ALL elections (like those in solid blue/red districts). When you look at those sources, you overwhelmingly don't see that money wins the elections. But again, I agree that money is a barrier to entry.
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe Өдрийн өмнө
@pasta goblin curse of knowledge. Ignorance is fun tho lol
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region Өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams That depends on your sources...and obviously there are numerous reliable sources available.
James Adams
James Adams Өдрийн өмнө
@Andrea Oceania Region most of them get rich IN politics, not get rich and then buy into politics. There is no evidence to suggest that one can buy an election. I agree that it is a barrier, though. "Google it" isn't evidence.
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region Өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams I mean of those most in government are plutocrats. If you have money you can be elected. If no money you can't be. And you can Google world economies...
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 4 өдрийн өмнө
Staten Island politician apologizes for shouting ‘Heil Hitler’ at heated lockdown protest A Staten Island political consultant running for borough president on Monday offered an apology - and defense - for a garbled blast at COVID-19 lockdowns and her use of “Heil Hitler” in her demand on the Sheriff’s Department to push back on the public health restrictions. Staten Island Republican Leticia Remauro told the Daily News on Monday that “I apologize profusely that the words I used in trying to create an analogy were offensive.” Remauro told The News she “actually meant to say ‘mein Führer, it’s not a good idea to send me here,’” a dig at the state leaders as “fascist.”
Bodhi Asay
Bodhi Asay 4 өдрийн өмнө
He talks about Capitalism as if Employers are monarchs. Everyone has equal opportunities to create their own business.. I don’t think we can equate the two.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin yes I have studied economics you dumbass, and I'm literally in the process of correcting you on economics right now. My education of economics comes from the university I attended. I have been correcting your labor theory of value bullshit for over a year solid now, and you STILL keep lying about it. You're a Marxist, so shut the fuck up. You literally lie about economics constantly and have no clue. I corrected you on video chat and am correcting you on Skype chat now because you keep getting it wrong.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 3 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , you haven't studied economics you hypocrite. Your perception of Economics comes from the Von mises Institute and prageru. You might as well have Alex Jones teaching you.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Andrea Oceania Region of course education helps. Communism and capitalism are mutually exclusive. You'd know that if you studied any economics. Obviously most countries in the world are mixed economies, and some lean more one way or another. We can see from the empirical evidence and history that more capitalism (not socialism) is better for freedom, equality and prosperity.
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams Education helps. Communism and social democratic societies also contain a major component of capitalism. That's how most countries are run.
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin I agree...the US is mostly a plutocratic government and past the point of just capitalist.
Jeff Casper
Jeff Casper 4 өдрийн өмнө
socialism/communism has historically on average murdered 1.2 million people per year (since 1900)....the end.
Jack McCabe
Jack McCabe Өдрийн өмнө
Roughly 5x as deadly as the bubonic plague. If we weren't talking about human lives, this would be hilarious
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin shut the fuck up shill. Your MEANS are authoritarian and result in deaths. Quit motte and baileying dumbass. "The argument is the cooperative sector is better for workers and communities compared to capitalist Enterprises. " Assertion with no proof to support it.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 3 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , socialism as a means to achieve socialism is responsible for death in poverty? you're not making any sense. If I made an argument that cars are better than bicycles, and you go to murder someone for their car, that's your problem. that's not proof that the argument is wrong. That just proves that you're crazy. The Cooperative sector is expanding. The argument is the cooperative sector is better for workers and communities compared to capitalist Enterprises. Socialism does not cause poverty or genocide. People installing dictators causes those things. It doesn't matter if you're capitalist, socialist or anything else. Also, the United States just loves funding and supporting dictators while doing everything they can to keep socialist countries poor. home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
OK so most modern EU countries and Oceanian countries and islands are some form of social democratic. The US has the highest homeless and murder rate..of all the modern 1st world countries on earth!
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin socialism is more than just worker ownership. It's how you get there, and socialism as a means to get there absolutely has created genocide and poverty. Quit spamming this motte and bailey. And no, what you spam isn't a freer market. Quit spamming your shill lies.
Appleblade
Appleblade 4 өдрийн өмнө
Mr. Socialism "... which debate the fundamental structure of capitalism, which is not about markets and not about the government, but how you organize the production and distribution of the goods and services without which you cannot live." Very odd. I take it capitalism is about letting markets organize the production and distribution of the goods and services that are both needed and desired....mostly desired. We truly need very little. Economic systems that don't let the market organize things and instead defer to leaders, thinkers, economists, etc., always fail because economic systems are complicated, and no one knows enough to run them. Prices are determined by profit and loss, and those factors will always arrange things better than central planners. A lesson from Thomas Sowell's book 'Basic Economics' references the Russian economists who tried to manage a socialist economy... they needed more pelts from trappers so they offered more per pelt, and got flooded with them... those excess pelts rotted away in warehouses. They didn't notice the pelts piling up because there were 24,000,000 other items to adjust prices on. The idea you can manage an economy from above is a piece of hubris that seemingly can't be excised from the minds of professors. BTW you can listen to Basic Economics for free here: mnpost.info/zone/mbfPeamPm9WkrHI/video
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin no it isn't, dumbass. He is not at all advocating for freer markets. Quit lying you paid shill spammer.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 4 өдрийн өмнө
Markets are not unique to capitalism. The type of socialism that Richard Wolff is talking about is actually more conducive to free markets and thriving economies.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
Thanks for the link! Let's see if we can get the socialist dipshits to learn economics instead of spewing such mindless nonsense day after day.
Dan Burga
Dan Burga 4 өдрийн өмнө
Anyone who thinks socialism is a viable economic system probably hasn't worked at a real job for a day in their life.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin capitalism always gives people the full value of their labor. Quit lying about economics you Marxist shill.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin no it isn't and no, they don't. Socialism doesn't give people more money and capitalism isn't eroding purchasing power. Quit lying paid shill.
Dan Burga
Dan Burga 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin Name one time when a socialist system worked and is still working. Aka where people are actually happy and not trying to flee the country. Case made.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Dan Burga , you do realize that markets are not unique to capitalism, yes? You do understand that you do not need capitalism in order to have a market, have production, have people producing, trading and selling with one another. I hope you understand that merely selling the product of one's labour is not capitalism. If you grow vegetables and sell them in the market, that is not capitalism. If you write a book and you sell it in the market, that is not capitalism. and when it comes to cool stories, it's very important to be able to differentiate between facts, assertions and opinions. mnpost.info/zone/a7Wyh7GXqJOYg5g/video
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Dan Burga , you see, if people have the option of getting the full value of their labour and being Their Own Boss, what they work for minimum wage at a company such as Walmart or Amazon? Of course not. If you could make $70,000 a year as an assembly line worker at a worker on bread factory, would you work for minimum wage in a dictatorship? No. Of course not. capitalism is a religion. It is an anti economic system. It doesn't even make sense. It violates basic market and economic principles. if over half of the wealth goes to capitalist owners rather than the workers, then obviously the workers are only going to be able to afford 50% of the things they produce. So how do you achieve economic equilibrium? You can't. Not without debt. 😀 do you see how Adam Smith's prediction 200 years ago was accurate? People can't even make sense of simple math. Lol you know why people support capitalism without thinking? Social engineering and propaganda. Not my opinion, a matter of public record. Capitalist propaganda since 1945: • Part 1: mnpost.info/zone/eq_RbZKWg9Kle2E/video • Part 2: mnpost.info/zone/hr-eoJmskMeirqQ/video • Part 3: mnpost.info/zone/m7u1qNfaqtWLZpw/video • Part 4: mnpost.info/zone/j7fbh7K0pqygpYo/video • Part 5: mnpost.info/zone/ltWWh5zBiJVkeH4/video • Part 6: mnpost.info/zone/aJqZatmacc5mgoo/video now if you want to research the science behind the development of modern propaganda, along with who was behind it and where the money came from, I would recommend watching this documentary "The history and development of social engineering in the 20th century" metanoia-films.org/human-resources/
Charlie Felsburg
Charlie Felsburg 4 өдрийн өмнө
He says Capitalism is unequal as if that is inherently wrong or bad.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin there you go even lying about economics again because you don't know economics. "Hypothetically speaking if half the wealth produced by 300 million people ends up going to just two people, what do you think the consequences are going to be?" Nothing in and of itself, because the 300 million people aren't equally producing the same amount of output, dumbass. If I produce a million dollars worth and you produce a single dollar worth then I'm going to have a million times more than you. There isn't anything inherently wrong with inequality. No one is being underpaid, dumbass. "If you reduce the purchasing power of the population by half" That does NOT happen. This is you again lying about economics. Wealth is not zero sum. The fact that I make more doesn't mean that your purchasing power is reduced. This is econ 101, and you failed it. "But in order for jobs to be maintained, all of the goods and services in production have to be sold." This occurs through lower prices, something that you also fail to understand because you're a propagandist and liar who doesn't get basic economic fundamentals. "You can't have an economic system where production output increases at a faster rate than income." Yes you can, dumbass, it's called lower real prices. The 1800s were full of such a period. Tons of economic growth and people were able to buy more because the production was increasing rapidly. "you know why Adam Smith was anti-capitalist? He pointed out that you cannot have a free market unless you have economic democracy." This is you again lying and spewing bullshit. Smith was not anti-capitalist and capitalism is not economic feudalism. Shut the fuck up you economically illiterate turd.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin nope, there is absolutely nothing wrong from the Mises Institute. In fact they have corrected many of your lies about economics and you don't have any argument. Until you can address their arguments, shut the fuck up. You're a literal Marxist that spews the debunked labor theory of value. If you knew any economics you'd know that the advancements in technology (and thus MOST of the additional value created) is from capital, not labor.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 3 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , you need to stop reading material from the Von mises Institute, prageru and the foundation of economic education. You actually believe what those people are telling you. Of course labor-saving technology increases the production output of workers. Everyone knows that. That's why we had what they called The Great Divide. You silly individual. We cross that divide when we learned to tap the power stored in other energy sources such as fossil fuels. That's why the population after the Great Divide was able to increase Beyond billion. I'm starting to think you didn't even Pass High School. You certainly have no concept of economics.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Charlie Felsburg , yeah, that's why they capitalist class want to keep people in the state of dependency. If you can own your own tools, trauma that you don't have to make products and money for someone else. That's why people are trying to achieve socialism. So that they could Escape wage slavery. The only class loves to justify their wealth by saying they own the capital. In their eyes the person doing all the work with a chainsaw to get the least amount of money. They think the owner of the Chainsaw should get most of the money. So obviously it's better if workers own their own chainsaws, Now isn't it? :-) and you don't think it's a problem that the two richest people have more wealth in the poorest half of the American population? Even with labor-saving technology Society is only capable of producing so much wealth in a year. Hypothetically speaking if half the wealth produced by 300 million people ends up going to just two people, what do you think the consequences are going to be? That wealth was made possible by severely underpaying workers. If you reduce the purchasing power of the population by half, that means people can only buy half as much stuff. But in order for jobs to be maintained, all of the goods and services in production have to be sold. Otherwise the economy will collapse. That's why there's so much debt under capitalism. Any erosion of purchasing power has to be offset with access to credit. You can't have an economic system where production output increases at a faster rate than income. 😀 you know why Adam Smith was anti-capitalist? He pointed out that you cannot have a free market unless you have economic democracy. Capitalism is not economic democracy, its economic feudalism. Under capitalism markets do not supply demand, they Supply what people could afford. those are two very different things.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Charlie Felsburg "The employee in question didnt produce 70,000 by themselves they produced 70,000 using the capitalists property, and therefore they are entitled to a share of that wealth. " THANK YOU! Reposting this again so that dipshit shill Michael Mappin has to see it again.
Mark Ford
Mark Ford 4 өдрийн өмнө
Faith is one of those words that is commonly used but not always understood. Some of that confusion comes from the many different ways the word faith is used in everyday conversation; a quick look at Dictionary.com shows seven different uses! One common way that people use the word faith is to refer to belief in something despite lacking any evidence for it. But is that what the Bible means by faith? The answer is a resounding no! So, when the Bible uses the word faith, what does it mean? The closest that the Bible comes to offering an exact definition is Hebrews 11:1: “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” From this particular passage we see that the central feature of faith-confidence or trust. In the Bible, the object of faith is God and his promises. A clear example of this is Abram's encounter with God in Genesis 15. In response to God's promise of countless descendants, Abram “believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness” (Gen 15:6). Commenting on this, the Apostle Paul writes, “No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised” (Rom 4:20-21). Thus, faith means putting your trust in God and having confidence that he will fulfill his promises. Faith is more than intellectual agreement. To use an old illustration, imagine you are at Niagara Falls watching a tightrope walker push a wheelbarrow across the rope high above the falls. After watching him go back and forth several times, he asks for a volunteer to sit in the wheelbarrow as he pushes it across the falls. At an intellectual level, you may believe that he could successfully push you across the rope over the falls, but you are not exercising biblical faith until you get in the wheelbarrow and entrust yourself to the tightrope walker. Genuine biblical faith expresses itself in everyday life. James writes that “faith by itself, apart from works, is dead” (James 2:17). Faith works through love to produce tangible evidence of its existence in a person's life (Gal 5:6). Put another way, the obedience that pleases God comes from faith (Rom 1:5, 16:26), rather than a mere sense of duty or obligation. There is all the difference in the world between the husband who buys his wife flowers out of delight and one who buys them simply out of duty. Faith is so important because it is the means by which we have a relationship with God: “For by grace you have been saved through faith” (Eph 2:8). Faith is how we receive the benefits of what Jesus has done for us. He lived a life of perfect obedience to God, died to pay the penalty for our sinful rebellion against God, and rose from the dead to defeat sin, death, and the devil. By putting our faith in him, we receive forgiveness for our sins and the gift of eternal life. So, faith means relying completely on who Jesus is and what he has done to be made right with God. Faith is choosing to believe First of all, the Christian faith professes an unreserved belief in the Bible, God’s Word to mankind - true, tested and unchanging. Faith is also full and unreserved confidence in God, in His love for me, and in His power to help me whatever comes my way in life. “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” Hebrews 11:6. Faith is a choice. I need faith to become a Christian. I choose to believe in Jesus Christ, that He died for my sins, and that by believing in Him, my sins will be forgiven. The promise is clear. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” John 3:16. It is faith in a Person that saves a believing soul, not faith in a particular philosophy or a code of rules. Every Christian will agree that salvation is a gift, not something we attain to by our own efforts. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9. To acknowledge my sin and repent from it is the first and vital step. But I still cannot save myself! “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23. To receive this gift, I must believe in and personally accept God’s gift to me in His Son. The forgiveness of sins is a wonderful beginning, and brings great joy to every true believer in Jesus. It is no small thing to have the burden and guilt of sin removed from my conscience! What comes next? So I am saved by grace through an act of faith. I choose to believe. Then what? Do I still need faith? Yes! If I want to live a life that pleases the Savior I have believed in. Though the guilt of sin is gone, the indwelling sin in my nature will still be the cause of many temptations. The next verse in Ephesians 2 tells us what God’s thoughts are for us after our initial experience of salvation. “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10. So God has something far greater, and even more wonderful in mind for us after we have believed Him for forgiveness. It is also written in Romans 5:10: “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” Jesus’ life was a life of action. “Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.” Hebrews 5:8. To be saved by His life, I need a faith that leads me to action. Paul calls it the obedience to the faith. (Romans 1:5) Jesus is our great Forerunner, and the author and finisher of our faith. (Hebrews 12:2) All the heroes of faith in the old covenant acted on their faith. They did something. Every one of them believed - and acted! By faith Noah prepared an ark, by faith Abraham obeyed, and so on. (Hebrews 11) Go to action! John writes simply: “In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.” John 1:4. It is this light of Jesus’ life that I need to walk in - go to action! If I really want to obey God’s good laws of life found in His Word, I will soon find myself in a battle Almost all talk of battles and wars when concerning a Christian life refers to the inner battle that arises when a sinful thought tempts you. God’s Spirit and the flesh are at odds. When you have decided to only do... , a battle against the sin the light reveals. This is the good fight of faith! To win this battle, I need to believe in a power outside of myself, in the power of the Holy Spirit, in Jesus Who has promised that He can save me, and that to the uttermost. (Hebrews 7:25) This ongoing salvation is a work of faith. It has nothing to do with my feelings, which can go up and down like a yo-yo. But when I believe God, and set my heart to obey, even against my feelings or my human understanding, then God goes to action too! He sends grace and help in time of need, and all honor for the salvation gained belongs to Him! Faith opens the door to a victorious life! By faith, we can truly overcome as He overcame! “This is the victory that overcomes the world - our faith.” 1 John 5:5. I believe in His power to save. I believe that when I take up my cross and deny myself as Jesus did, or as the Scriptures also put it, am “crucified with Christ,” I will be victorious over sin and self. “I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20. Faith is a precious possession! As we said to start with, it is not visible or tangible. However, Jesus said to doubting Thomas: “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29. Peter writes about this blessedness also. “… whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls.” 1 Peter 1:8-9. The result of a living faith is both visible and tangible! The disciples saw it and touched it in Jesus, and our calling as Christians is to come to this same joyful and glorious life - by faith! 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 7 And God will provide rest for you who are being persecuted and also for us when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power. Come join us at Arundel Christian Church web site every Sunday morning LIVE!!!
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 4 өдрийн өмнө
“You can’t have capitalism without racism... You can’t operate a capitalistic system unless you are vulturistic; you have to have someone else’s blood to suck to be a capitalist... it necessary for the people to consider socialist solutions to their problem. But as the leader of the movement, it was necessary to present this concept in a way that would be understandable to the people and would not isolate him from them." - Malcolm X
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Communist Punk don't care.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 4 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams Racial equality was fought by communist like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Communist Punk "America is more communistic today than it was during 1800s." In some ways, yes. In others not necessarily. "Equal rights" Antithetical to communism entirely. "free education, universal healthcare, gender equality, police and fire station, public library" Garbage.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 4 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams America is more communistic today than it was during 1800s. Equal rights, free education, universal healthcare, gender equality, police and fire station, public library and free information, worker rights and vacation and weekened rest and abolishing of child labor, that is Karl Marx Ideology.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
Wrong. Fuck off propaganda spammer. Capitalism isn't taking anything from labor. Quit spamming labor theory of value bullshit. It's objectively wrong. Learn real economics and stop spewing nonsense.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a lying spamming Marxist shill who lies about history and economics because he's paid to do so. He spams the same false statements he's been making for over a year on this same video because he's paid to be dishonest and peddle an evil Marxist ideology.
Wartrix
Wartrix 4 өдрийн өмнө
I love how they don't interrupt each other and even though they hold opposite opinions they can still be respectful
Moamal ali
Moamal ali Өдрийн өмнө
Agreed makes it worth rewatching from time to time.
Vinod Nair
Vinod Nair 5 өдрийн өмнө
Inequality will always be there! Because babies are born with different IQs...
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin it has to do with you being a paid shill who lies for a living because you have no valid reason to spew shit that you've been debunked on for over a year. Only a low IQ shill would keep coming back to lie like you do.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
Okay, but what does that have to do with the argument?
Vic toews
Vic toews 5 өдрийн өмнө
USA-Mike Pompeo brags publicly" we lie,we steal,we cheat." But we all know they also Bomb, Sanction, kill, Assassinate, torture, coup and actually think they are the good guys. How can a country like that possibly change? When evil believes it's good there's not much chance of change.
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
Yup especially when you add plutocracy to it...lol
Vinod Nair
Vinod Nair 5 өдрийн өмнө
We did socialist experiments...ya very expensive experiments.. of killing millions..
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin shut the fuck up shill. Socialism absolutely does kill people and has done so.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
Socialism doesn't kill people. socialism is just Collective worker ownership. Yeah, if you give someone dictatorial powers and remove checks and balances in your government, you're asking for trouble. Doesn't matter what economic system you have. You don't do that. A lot of countries did that because of external threats and pressures. Has nothing to do with Socialism or communism. Communism is community ownership. There's plenty of community ownership in the United States. Almost 60% of the country gets its electricity from community-owned cooperatives. Just because countries such as China and Russia gave dictatorial powers to the government, that doesn't have anything to do with Community or social ownership. there are regions in Europe where 44% of the GDP come from cooperative. You don't see people starving to death or being murdered. 🙂 mnpost.info/zone/hq2Wfc3Sf8d4rZQ/video
Saif Noble
Saif Noble 5 өдрийн өмнө
Capitalism vs. Socialism mnpost.info/zone/l6vcZKy6rLiVr2E/video
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin shut the fuck up Marxist shill. Capitalism is not ever "at the expense" of communities and workers. You're a lying piece of shit spammer.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
Keep in mind that the type of socialism being discussed in the video doesn't have anything to do with State ownership. They're talking about worker ownership. social programs and progressive taxation in a country such as the United States, which is capitalist, are merely an extension of capitalism. Socialism is worker ownership. Communism is community ownership. For example, almost 60% of the United States gets its electricity from community-owned electrical cooperatives. community-owned and socially owned factories and companies are better for communities and workers. Capitalist companies are better for capitalist and usually operate at the expense of communities and workers. mnpost.info/zone/hq2Wfc3Sf8d4rZQ/video
FOBOS& DEIMOS
FOBOS& DEIMOS 5 өдрийн өмнө
the soviet union in 87 years of existence achieved everything that the west will never achieve all the best and most important achievements were communists .....
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
No, they killed millions and had economic stagnation, dumbass.
Keith Barrows
Keith Barrows 5 өдрийн өмнө
That is some bomb ass shit...
Elizabeth S
Elizabeth S 5 өдрийн өмнө
"Bernie Sanders has the name "Socialist" and he doesn't give it up, he doesn't turn away" I'm curious to know if Bernie has helped to finance and put into practice any of Mr. Wolffe's proposed socialist co-op models in America or abroad?
Urza26
Urza26 5 өдрийн өмнө
#$%^ this moderator, interrupting both speakers and being a prick. He must be under the impression that he's there to debate both of them.
Allin7days
Allin7days 5 өдрийн өмнө
We all know that Capitalism works better than Socialism simply by results, but not perfect. Don't let politicians/academia drag you into a debate of Capitalism vs. Socialism. Capitalism won that debate a long time ago. However, pure anything-ism is too ideal for it to work well in real life. We've got smart enough to do better than pure capitalism as we did with pure democracy, called Republic. Don't forget that nothing is absolutely good or bad. We'll need to be flexible enough to adapt changes to better serve the people.
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
Is that why the US is only 7th in the world (if that) economically and why your minimum wage is like $5.. and why you have more homelessness in your cities than any other cities on earth...and why some have no health care. .and so on...and why your population are being used to make money. Social democracy which many of the wealthy countries are,,is not the same as communism..unless you are American that is.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin "For example, one of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. How can you achieve equilibrium if production output increases at a much faster rate than wages? obviously have most of the wealth is going to idle shareholders rather than the actual producers, then the workers are not going to be able to afford the very goods and services they are producing." Wrong and this isn't what equilibrium even means. Quit spewing dumb shit when you don't know the first thing about economics.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin yes it is true. Shut the fuck up Marxist shill. Capitalist firms do not benefit owners at the expense of workers or communities. You're a spamming liar. Workers always get the full value of their labor. You've been shown this for over a year. You're a lying spamming shill. fee.org/articles/debunking-marxism-101-why-your-boss-isnt-ripping-you-off/
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
That's simply not true. socially owned companies and Community owned companies benefit communities and workers. capitalist companies benefit capitalist at the expense of workers and communities. When workers own their own businesses and factories, then they get all of the wealth that their labour produces and they get to be their own bosses. So obviously Democratic workplaces provide more equality, freedom and prosperity for workers and communities. That's why it's possible for an assembly line worker to make $70,000 a year at a United States socially on bread factory but not at a capitalist company. When you don't own the product of your labour, you're basically nothing but human livestock. It doesn't matter if you produce $70,000 worth of product. You've basically made that money for someone else. but when workers get all of the wealth that their labour produces, then that gives the more money to spend into the economy. That's why socialism is actually more conducive to a free market in thriving economy compared to capitalism. Capitalism violates basic market and economic principles. For example, one of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. How can you achieve equilibrium if production output increases at a much faster rate than wages? obviously have most of the wealth is going to idle shareholders rather than the actual producers, then the workers are not going to be able to afford the very goods and services they are producing. If workers only get 25% of the wealth that their labour produces, then they're only going to be able to afford 25% of that which they produce. So how do we maintain jobs through consumption? if consumption slows, people get laid off and can't consume. the people that get laid off have to compete with all of the other unemployed people and that drives wages downward. that's why there's so much debt. Capitalism requires debt in order to continue functioning. But eventually the interest attached to the debt will lower purchasing power even further. One of the reasons why capitalism either crashes every 4 to 7 years or experience is an economic downturn. capitalism is a pyramid scheme. A religion. It is an anti economic system. It is economic feudalism. socialism is economic democracy. Adam Smith was anti-capitalist because he knew that free markets require economic democracy. under capitalism most of the capitals owned by the richest members of society. Therefore they get to decide what is produced, how things are produced, where things are produced, how much workers get paid, Etc. decision-making depends on how many shares you can afford. the richest 1% owns 83% of world stocks. That is a plutocracy. Rule by money. mnpost.info/zone/ad7XptrKhaZ8eHo/video
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a lying spammer and Marxist shill who spams for a living. It's all communist propaganda because he can't form an argument based on truth and real citations.
Peter Tiang
Peter Tiang 5 өдрийн өмнө
There is already one such a very very successful enterprise, Huawei....ha..ha..ha... Employee owned and the founder only have a small share. That is why US have to use the might of the govt to surpress such an enterprise that demonstrate an alternative model. So, you have to ask, who is the US govt working for ?
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Hu ha hu ha hu ha Kazachok wrong! There is nothing in anarchy about hierarchy. Anarchy is no rulers. Capitalism is a hierarchy but it is 100% justified. Now fuck off with your leftist bullshit. And no, anarchy has a meaning before leftists tried to monopolize it. I don't worship it at all. Again, fuck off, troll.
Hu ha hu ha hu ha Kazachok
Hu ha hu ha hu ha Kazachok 3 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams anarchy is opposition to all unjustified hierarchies and one of them is capitalism! Lmao these righties really do appropriate everything from the left. Political appropriation is real afterall. Why do you worship capitalism like a god?
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin and if you learned instead of spewing Marxist propaganda you'd know this. Anarchy is the fullest expression of capitalism and capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchy.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , no government under capitalism. That's amazing. 😀
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin more lies. Under capitalism there is no government because capitalism entails all private ownership and control over property. And no, workers aren't a commodity. They are free agents. Shut the fuck up, lying Marxist piece of shit. Go spam your religious bullshit elsewhere.
Víctor Manuel Santiago
Víctor Manuel Santiago 5 өдрийн өмнө
Corrupted capitalism failed in USA as corrupted socialism failed in USSR... so why not trying something in the middle, the best of both... without being corrupted. Socialism is ment to be turn toward the wellbeing of its workers first, while capitalism stimulate the intellectual competition, innovations and economy. Something must be done for sure.
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin more lies. Shut the fuck up spammer. Capitalism is freer markets and more innovation than socialism. That's a fact.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
Actually, capitalism is not conducive to thriving economies or markets. or innovation, for that matter.
Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo Baggins 5 өдрийн өмнө
Was disappointed that the capitalist advocate seemed to spend way more time just trying to smear the socialist candidate rather than actually producing facts or statistics. Otherwise, the more relaxed nature of this political discussion was quite refreshing.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Bilbo Baggins don't care. You can also fuck off. Mappin is a Marxist shill who has been spamming outright lies for over a year, and now you're here to join him. You can't once cite where Epstein smeared Wolff and I again challenge you to find a single time stamp to prove it. You can't because you're making it up. As for the debate, it is structured in a way to make the affirmative prove their case. The negative doesn't have to prove his case, he only has to show that the affirmative debater didn't make his case (through refutation). Socialists being pieces of shit is shown by your willingness to baselessly accuse others of smearing when you can't prove it. We call that lying. Again, you've joined Mappin in that.
Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo Baggins 5 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams Wow, remember when in my original post I said that "the more relaxed nature of this political discussion was quite refreshing."? Not only have you completely ruined that with your unnecessary "You're a liar. Fuck off, lying Marxist piece of shit. ", you've done the exact thing I accused the capitalist representative of doing - a smear campaign. Both you and him can't seem to make arguments on why capitalism is actually good, and can only talk about why socialism is bad, and it's supporters 'pieces of shit'.
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin yes it is true. He did not once smear Wolff personally. You're again lying as you always do. Like when you lied claiming that his socialism didn't involve the government and I gave you the time stamp and you kept lying about it. I challenge you to give one single time stamp in which Gene Epstein is personally smearing Richard Wolff in this video. Oh, that's right, you can't do it because it never once happened and we have the video. You're a liar. Fuck off, lying Marxist piece of shit.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , That's not true. I don't know whether or not you're dishonest or are you truly don't understand the material
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
He didn't at all smear Wolff. He pointed out the faults in his arguments.
Hayden Brophy
Hayden Brophy 6 өдрийн өмнө
18:58 I love how he calls the most brutalized and genocidal regimes in modern history "experiments" how cute, its easy to idolize socialism when you ignore the 100 million killed under mao and 10 million under pol pot and 50 million under stalin
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Nancy Pelosi prrdictive texts on phone sux!!
Nancy Pelosi
Nancy Pelosi 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Andrea Oceania Region But their economic system was Socialist lmfao
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Andrea Oceania Region zero wealthy countries are socialist. The social democratic ones that have wealth are typically very capitalist. In either case, socialism is still garbage.
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
Russia was a totalinariast state under Stalin, and later communist. Not socialist or social democratic as many wealthy countries are.
Hayden Brophy
Hayden Brophy 6 өдрийн өмнө
10:50 he calls capitalist economies unstable yet every socialist country has either collapsed or wavered into adopting free markets,
Kwinten Van den Berghe
Kwinten Van den Berghe 2 өдрийн өмнө
@Hayden Brophy You realize that your argument of "voting with your dollar" means that people with lots of wealth, e.g. the insanely rich 1% that own more than 50% of all wealth in the developed world, have more voting rights and therefore more power. Why would "voting with your dollar" ever be a fair or stable system?
UhRoachOh
UhRoachOh 3 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams bro you're literally the worst. Shut the fuck up.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Kamden McLean I call socialist propagandists dumbasses because that's what you're doing when you try to claim that it wasn't socialism that caused the shortages. It absolutely did. The USSR had more man-made "famines" after communism and this is directly because they were centrally planning things. Of course it's not you personally doing it, but it's still your dumb ideology.
Kamden McLean
Kamden McLean 3 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams you’re being weirdly aggressive, I never attacked you personally. Also food shortages was an abstract example. Here’s a real life example: the USSR was formed as a communist state when Russia overthrew its Tsar because the peasants were in such a dire state. And I can’t own up to socialism failing, I don’t run a socialist state nor am I socialism itself, so it’s not a personal failure when a socialist state fails
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@UhRoachOh yeah, you are spewing communist propaganda. Quit being a dumbass.
Matthew Michaels
Matthew Michaels 6 өдрийн өмнө
Please detail which socialist country is a better model than the capitalist countries? You are putting the corrupt shitty US model scenario as the entire capitalist system.
S. Prince
S. Prince 6 өдрийн өмнө
All people running a business exerting the exact same amount of effort is also impossible because people aren’t created equal, people have different abilities and talents, therefore their will never be equality in the workplace.
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin shut the fuck up, spammer. Nothing you've said about economics is actual economics. You're a Marxist propagandist. Wages have increased along with production. Real wages have risen. No one is extracting wealth from labor. This has been proven to you multiple times you lying piece of shit. Quit spamming blatant lies.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 6 өдрийн өмнө
Of course everyone's not equal. No one said that they were. There are hundreds of thousands of democratic workplaces in the United States and around the world. Almost 60% of the United States gets its electricity from democratic workplaces. Democratic workplaces are more conducive to a free market in thrive in the economy because wealth and control stays with the workers and communities. It makes workers and communities less dependant upon billionaire corporations and governments when it comes to jobs and consumer goods. There's a socially on the bread factory in the United States where assembly line workers make between 65 and $70,000 per year. most assembly line workers at capitalist companies make minimum wage. that's because they don't own the product of their labour. Kind of Cooperative the workers own the product of their labour. Therefore, if they make a million dollars worth of product, they get that money and they get to spend it into the economy. but under capitalism most of the wealth does not go to the workers, it goes to shareholders and capitalist owners. That creates a huge problem because then workers can't actually afford all of the goods and services they are producing. one of the central goals of Economics is to achieve equilibrium. you can't do that under capitalism because production output is always expanding at a much faster rate than wages. that's why there's so much debt. the more wealth you extract from labour, the more credit has to be made available in order to maintain rates of consumption so that jobs are not lost
S. Prince
S. Prince 6 өдрийн өмнө
There will always be a leader, it’s impossible to have a group working an not have leaders because not all people are natural born leaders, some are more comfortable being followers. Think about Kindergarten, there were always natural leaders who took the lead.
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin fuck off spammer. You already know that capitalist enterprises pay workers all of the wealth that their labor produces and have been given the citations. Quit spamming your nonsense.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 6 өдрийн өмнө
The point is that worker cooperatives are democratic. The workers have sovereignty. If they bought them up, non-hierarchical democratic form of organization. Yes, the workers can choose managers, organisers and directors. But they are not dictators like at a capitalist company. It's kind of like when a symphony orchestra hires a conductor. the conductor helps guide the orchestra oh, but he's not a dictator. The point is that when workers own their own companies and factories, it's better for them. They get to keep all of the wealth that their labour produces and they get to be their own bosses. Capitalist companies are better for capitalist. Study number 1: Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses. "The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness. It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries. Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues. The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms. When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit." The main findings from the analysis and review are: • Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive. • Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment. • Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently. • Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models. • Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms. ** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes." Here is a link to the research data www.uk.coop/sites/default/files/uploads/attachments/worker_co-op_report.pdf Study number 2: This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation! democracycollaborative.org/content/worker-cooperatives-pathways-scale Study number 3: This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”. www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/1995/01/1995_bpeamicro_craig.pdf Study number 4: An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself. www.uk.coop/newsroom/new-report-highlights-lessons-worlds-largest-worker-co-op Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times! CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018 ▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership. www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace.pdf ▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf 1. For example, these assembly line workers make $65,000 a year for putting bread into a bag! mnpost.info/zone/YrzKmavcr8hqnII/video 2. People feel United and actually look forward to going to work! That makes them more creative and productive. mnpost.info/zone/pK6eaN_XhcmReaA/video 3. Worker cooperatives are more productive than normal companies www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/ 4. More resilience, productivity, and equality. lindsayadvocate.ca/worker-cooperatives-a-path-to-equality/ 5. Democratic workplaces are far superior to capitalist corporations! cooperativesfirst.com/blog/2017/09/11/2017911how-co-operatives-are-better-than-corporations/ 6. People have more money, people are happier, people are more productive and more creative, and they feel more connected to their communities and environment. mnpost.info/zone/mtOfkLbcfLeEm6A/video 7. The Italian Region Where Co-ops Produce a Third of Its GDP www.yesmagazine.org/economy/2016/07/05/the-italian-place-where-co-ops-drive-the-economy-and-most-people-are-members/ 8. pandemic crash shows worker cooperatives are more resilient than traditional businesses. Worker co-ops are a more sustainable form of business, sharing benefits in the good times and burdens in the hard times. truthout.org/articles/pandemic-crash-shows-worker-co-ops-are-more-resilient-than-traditional-business/ 9. Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass www.electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/ 10. "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy." "US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location." Key points to highlight about American cooperatives: • There are 120 million cooperative members. • 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions. • More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states. That equates to 12 percent of the nation’s population. • In the United States, more than 1.2 million families of all income levels live in homes owned and operated through cooperative associations. • Farmer co-ops provide over 250,000 jobs, with a total payroll in excess of $8 billion. • More than 50 million Americans are served by insurance companies owned by or closely affiliated with cooperatives. • More than 20 cooperatives have annual sales in excess of $1 billion, including well known names like Land O’ Lakes, Inc., Cabot Creamery, Ocean Spray and ACE Hardware. US data on Cooperatives • 29,284 cooperative firms •654 billion plus in revenue. • $133.5 billion in income. • $3 trillion in assets. • 2 million plus jobs. • 120 million members. www.aciamericas.coop/Economic-impact-of-the-United
Dale Casey
Dale Casey 6 өдрийн өмнө
The ability to rise above, the ability to choose your own destiny, through hard work, Owned and created by you, not by a government, successful or not , is a wonderful thing ! The right to risk and suffer the loss to do so if not successful, the right to stand tall with success if successful in competition! The right of an idea, all on your own, and to develop it to its potential! It’s a guarantee in our Constitution... This sets all western nations apart from all failed socialist governments, from this ideal.. all of them, the socialist governments , soon resort to fear, and intimidation to keep control of the public.. no one ever starts a business anymore under this system, unless, sanctioned by an evil government, whereby no one owns such, but is appointed over a task, and staffed by no chiefs but themselves, the government, and have only Indians for labor! So where goes the promise of life, liberty, and most importantly, the individual pursuit of happiness? It’s Gone with socialism, along with individual rights! . This equals nothing more individually, than those that do nothing, don’t pursue by choice or ignorance of their obvious opportunities in a free market society... only in America and the free market world , can an ordinary citizen rise to be A millionaire if they so choose to work at it... Only in America can an ordinary citizen rise to be President , or Prime Minister in other western nations , if they so choose to work at it...most all of America’s great leaders and entrepreneurs arose from extremely humble beginnings, from birth in log cabins to begging for food in the streets and assuming menial jobs to later becoming an Abraham Lincoln, saving the Union, to speculators with little but ideas nourished by freedom, and immigrants like Andrew Carnegie, and all the Captains of industry that laid the foundation for a new age... Only in America, and Western nations has the benefit of over 2 hundred years of flourishing under this Inalienable right of private enterprise, and Capitalism guaranteed by our Constitution, did spurn the industrial revolution, followed by unbelievable leaps in technology, and infrastructure, not matched by others , but stolen by those nations from us through espionage, thereby forcing their Marxist victims and populous of labor to create a similar but not equal outcome by the whip.... To even imagine, that we as Americans should bow to this, give up our values of religion, our well earned place, to this socialist movement of late, as an alternative to what we’ve earned and built as a people, is beyond insulting the most highest level of intelligence amoung us, but also insults the lowest grain of soil , both here and abroad, upon which this nation and its honored dead now rest, who gave the last full measure of devotion to defend.against, is literately unconscionable!!! I can’t believe what I’m seeing and strongly urge all Patriots to defeat it ...please retweet this is you agree...
Saima Hussain
Saima Hussain 6 өдрийн өмнө
Mr WOLFF you are my hero
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
You should learn real history and economics then. All he did was spew lies and nonsense. Plus he lost the debate. He didn't have any argument.
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a lying spammer and Marxist shill who spams for a living.
He Who Must Not Be Named
He Who Must Not Be Named 6 өдрийн өмнө
Why on Earth do capitalists think that having power over your workplace and being able to take a break from work in order look for a better job without fear of bankruptcy is somehow going to stop people from having control over their lives? This guy is insane. Thanks for speaking sense Richard.
He Who Must Not Be Named
He Who Must Not Be Named 5 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams well actually I was stupid to say that, sorry. Bolivia isn't an example of just being about the means of production. They are an example of socialism not bringing tyranny or being a dictatorship.
He Who Must Not Be Named
He Who Must Not Be Named 5 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams Bolivia. There. Know you either have to lie to say what you said again or you have to admit that it can work.
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
Motte and bailey, dumbass. Socialism isn't "just you have power over your workplace" and never has been.
Kovács Dóra
Kovács Dóra 6 өдрийн өмнө
that was so rude not to let him finish his thoughts at the end
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 6 өдрийн өмнө
With rising global inequality and environmental crises, capitalism is unable to resolve the crises and thus has become an obsolete social system - The author discusses the history and impacts of capitalism, trends in globalisation, and persisting inequality among countries and proposes that an alternative economic system should be adopted. Since the mid-18th century, capitalism has not only shaped modern societies, but has also witnessed periodic crises that have often threatened these societies’ very existence. A number of theorists have sought an explanation at to why such setbacks to stability and growth take place. For Karl Marx, it was due to control of wealth by a privileged few and he argued that the system produces wealth at one pole and poverty at another and simultaneously becomes immensely strengthened. Rosa Luxemburg proposed that these cycles are due to exhaustion of new land for colonisation and markets; Keynes suggested the lack of demand and the saturation of markets and Kondratieff stagnation in technological development. Despite their differences they all agreed that capitalism was not a natural system and was bound to end sooner or later. Capitalism as a socio-economic system arose in Europe initially as “merchant capitalism” and subsequently through a technological revolution which metamorphosed into “industrial capitalism”. The prominent Austrian economist Joseph Schumpeter characterised the dynamics of capitalist development as displacing old equilibria and creating radically new conditions. For him, economic development is accompanied by growth, i.e., sustained increases in national income, which occurs discontinuously rather than smoothly. According to him, the immediate stimulus for development emanating in the sphere of industrial and commercial life takes place due to innovation (i.e. new products, methods of production, markets and sources of supply). The innovation process “incessantly revolutionises the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, [and] incessantly creating a new one. This process of creative destruction is the essential fact about capitalism” (Schumpeter, 1950:83). The prime motives of entrepreneurs are accumulation and enlargement of profits. Capitalism as a socio-economic system arose in Europe initially as “merchant capitalism” and subsequently through a technological revolution which metamorphosed into “industrial capitalism”. Slavery and colonial expansion were the main forces behind the establishment of capitalism, first in Britain and later on in Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy. The big question is where the principal accumulation of wealth came from? Of course, slavery and colonialism played a big role. Historically, capitalism always fought for new territories and markets. It was also instrumental in imparting ‘vertical’ and ‘horizontal inequality’ in the world. However, there was a reaction to colonial capitalism which resulted in the Russian Revolution (1917) and the Chinese Revolution (1949) and decolonisation. However, unequal economic relations and Western control somehow persisted in the former colonies in the form of “neo-colonialism”. Slavery and colonial expansion were the main forces behind the establishment of capitalism, first in Britain and later on in Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy. In the West, after successive crises, capitalism has been successful in rescuing itself mainly through exogenous support. For instance, during the “Great Depression” of the 1930s, Keynes advocated in favour of increased government spending to lift the economy out of recession. When consumers and businesses slow down, the government should increase spending to increase demand for goods and services. This fiscal stimulus could take the form of public housing, healthcare, education and infrastructure projects. However, we should not ignore the role of government spending in boosting the defence sector, which is seen as a new avenue to increase profits and also creates jobs. Thus, military Keynesianism became popular among the ruling elites in the post-war period and large corporations also saw military spending as an important form of government intervention to make profits. These defence expenditures in advanced economies such as the U.S., UK and France also helped to counteract the threat of recession in their economies. In the aftermath of the “Great Depression” and Second World War, capitalism was transformed with the increased role of government in the economy, a strong workers union and welfare state. There was a sea change from the economic system and policies which existed in Western Europe and the United States in the 1920s. After the Second World War, the social democratic governments under Keynesian economic policies were prompted, with active state intervention, to preserve economic stability and social justice within the framework of capitalism, which is known as the “Golden Age” of capitalism. Markets were brought under social control and a number of policies were designed to protect societies from the disastrous policies of the past.
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Andrea Oceania Region no it doesn't. Capitalism on its own has no rulers.
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
Capitalism on its own, ends in a plutocratic system!!
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 6 өдрийн өмнө
Direct slavery is just as much the pivot of bourgeois industry as machinery, credits, etc. Without slavery you have no cotton; without cotton you have no modern industry. It is slavery that has given the colonies their value; it is the colonies that have created world trade, and it is world trade that is the pre-condition of large-scale industry. Thus slavery is an economic category of the greatest importance. Without slavery North America, the most progressive of countries, would be transformed into a patriarchal country. Wipe out North America from the map of the world, and you will have anarchy--the complete decay of modern commerce and civilization. Cause slavery to disappear and you will have wiped America off the map of nations. Thus slavery, because it is an economic category, has always existed among the institutions of the peoples. Modern nations have been able only to disguise slavery in their own countries, but they have imposed it without disguise upon the New World. - Karl Marx
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 7 өдрийн өмнө
The Global Times also tweeted a series of side-by-side photos of two events: the siege of the U.S. Capitol and a July 2019 incident in which pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong broke into the city’s Legislative Council building. In the caption, the tabloid questioned when U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi-who previously expressed support for Hong Kong’s protests-would “say the same about the recent developments in Capitol Hill.” (Rioters in Washington, D.C., stormed the Capitol seeking to overturn the results of a legitimate election, whereas Hong Kong protesters entered LegCo calling for democratic reforms like universal suffrage.) A Thursday article covering the riots from Beijing News, a state-owned newspaper, was headlined, “The U.S. has fallen into disarray.” The almost gleeful coverage of turmoil in the U.S. is a trademark of China’s state-run media’s eagerness to undermine the U.S.’s authority on the world stage at a time when China’s government has received international condemnation for political suppression in Hong Kong. When Black Lives Matter protests swept across the U.S. this past summer, China’s state-run outlets accused U.S. politicians of “hypocrisy” for expressing support for protests in Hong Kong while condemning the U.S. demonstrations.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 7 өдрийн өмнө
Why are Americans warming to socialism? Because capitalism has failed them When you think about hotbeds of socialism, Texas is not the first place that comes to mind. However, according to a CBS News/YouGov poll last month, 56% of Democratic primary voters in the Lone Star state say they have a positive view of socialism while only 37% have a favourable view of capitalism. It is a similar story in California; more Democrats feel positive about socialism than about capitalism. Does this mean the two most populous states in the US are ready to embrace revolution? No. But this poll reflects a couple of hugely important shifts in the US’s political landscape and national psyche. First, there is Texas’s move to the left. The traditionally Republican state has become notably less conservative in recent years thanks to a growing Hispanic population and the migration of young, out-of-state liberals to its growing tech industry. Texas is predicted to be far more competitive in the general election than it has been in the past; it won’t be easy, but it is no longer implausible that the state will turn blue. Whether Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders has a better chance of making that happen, however, is hotly contested. More broadly, the poll reflects a step-change in US attitudes towards capitalism. It would be inaccurate to say that the US is embracing “socialism”, because the word has become amorphous: boomers associate it with Stalinism, millennials associate it with Scandinavia. In many ways, the S-word is a red herring. The country has not so much warmed to socialism as it has cooled on capitalism. This is hardly surprising when you consider how the latter has failed ordinary Americans. The poorest men in the US have the same life expectancy as men in Sudan. Maternal mortality more than doubled between 1991 and 2014. The middle class has shrunk. People are desperate for an alternative to an increasingly dismal status quo. Capitalism is central to the US’s national identity; conservatives view the country’s move towards socialism, as personified in the rise of Sanders, as nothing short of an existential crisis. “America v socialism” was the official theme of this year’s Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), an annual gathering of US conservatives. “Our view is it’s not capitalism versus socialism, because socialism isn’t just about economics,” a CPAC organiser told attendees earlier this week. “Socialism … gets to the very core of violating the dignity of the individual human being that has God-given rights. And that’s got us pretty fired up.” Centrist Democrats are equally fired up. They see Sanders’ success as an existential threat to the party and are fighting harder to defeat him than they are to defeat Donald Trump. The polls may suggest the US is ready for a president who calls himself a democratic socialist, but the establishment clearly thinks otherwise. Parallels have been drawn with George McGovern, a senator who advocated for universal health care, railed against corporations and had enthusiastic support from the young. McGovern beat the odds and won the Democratic nomination in 1972; he lost the general election to Richard Nixon in a landslide. Parallels have also been drawn with Jeremy Corbyn. We all know how that turned out. I am not sure there is much to be gained by these comparisons. For one, income inequality in the US was far lower in the 70s than it is now. Also, Sanders does not have Brexit complicating matters. But if we are going to invoke cautionary historical precedents, why not look at 2016, when Hillary Clinton, the most centrist of centrists, could not beat Trump? Honestly, I don’t know if the US is ready for a socialist president, but it may be more ready than it has been before. •Arwa Mahdawi is a Guardian columnist
Andrea Oceania Region
Andrea Oceania Region 3 өдрийн өмнө
Because whatever capitalism was meant to be, it's become a plutocratic society. Many successful, wealthy countries contain a component of social democracy with capitalism.
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
No, capitalism hasn't at all failed them. Fuck off with your spam.
Gonçalo Oliveira
Gonçalo Oliveira 7 өдрийн өмнө
If my roomate was capitalism, i would rather live with him knowing he is unstable then living with the stable socilism roomate that does literaly anything and me Being his roomate i would have to do everything for him while he sits there waiting for someone to work for him .
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin shut the fuck up spammer.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
What does any of that have to do with socialism? You might actually want to watch the video that you're commenting on. Your statement doesn't make any sense
The Dude
The Dude 7 өдрийн өмнө
I love how everyone who promotes socialism lives in a Capitalist country. Prove to everyone the wonders of socialism by moving to a socialist country. I'll be waiting.
James Adams
James Adams 7 өдрийн өмнө
Socialists always call it "not real socialism" after they've drove it into the ground.
Jesus H Medrano
Jesus H Medrano 7 өдрийн өмнө
One thing is certain, capitalism is not working for the majority of Americans so change is in order. That be whatever its gonna be
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Jesus H Medrano no, government is bad because it is coercive. Not a damn thing to do with money in politics or capitalism. More capitalism is better. Capitalism is for the people. Government is not. I already explained this to you. Government cannot be for the people because it's statist in nature. Again, middle class is getting richer. That's not a bad thing unless you're a moron. Education and healthcare are more expensive because of the government. We don't hardly have any capitalism in it at all. Of course it needs to change. Get the government out of it and you'll see it improve. School choice makes for better education outcomes and cheaper costs. Not throwing money at 18 year old kids for worthless degrees. Not monopolizing healthcare and throwing money at it.
Jesus H Medrano
Jesus H Medrano 4 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams sooo, lets see if u can understand this simple Point, government is bad because of all the money and influence the rich have in it thanx to capitalism. If the goverment was ran by the people and for the people how it should be we wouldnt have these Problems but thanx to our capitalism ways of letting the rich pump money into politics for the last 40 or so years we have these issues, middle Class shrinking and lower paying jobs, education cost 300% more than just the 80’s and healthcare 200% more than just 20 years a go, why?? The rich found out a long time A go that if they control goverment with money they control us. Am not saying we should be socialist or anytbinf all Am saying shit needs to change!! If it hasn’t affected you then ok u dont get it an hopefully It doesn’t affect you.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Jesus H Medrano "i can send u articles saying that the middle Class is shrinking so what does that prove?" It proves by the SAME sources that the middle class is getting richer, not poorer, dumbass. Here's one from even Pew. i.pinimg.com/originals/fa/4b/11/fa4b11c8267454d210090c71c646acf2.jpg " its just makes no sense to me why ppl are struggling more and more now days and younger gen cant buy houses or pay their damn schooling off With this low wages." Wages aren't low. In the extremely recent timeline, we've seen economic problems from government forcibly shutting down businesses. That isn't capitalism, it's government. As for housing and education, the problem is people buying too much of it, not that it's just too expensive by itself. A modest home that isn't in a big city is affordable. A modest university or junior college education isn't that bad. Vocational school also not bad.
Jesus H Medrano
Jesus H Medrano 4 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams i can send u articles saying that the middle Class is shrinking so what does that prove? Either u get it or you dont plain and simple and if u believe in what those articles say then good for you, its just makes no sense to me why ppl are struggling more and more now days and younger gen cant buy houses or pay their damn schooling off With this low wages.
James Adams
James Adams 4 өдрийн өмнө
@Jesus H Medrano dumbass, I literally just got done linking you to the data disproving your dumbass propaganda. The middle class is getting richer, not poorer. That's a fact. I'm insulting you because you're being a dipshit and spewing blatant falsehoods.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 7 өдрийн өмнө
China to overtake US as world’s biggest economy by 2028, report predicts Centre for Economics and Business Research says it expects this to happen half a decade sooner than it forecast a year ago China will overtake the US as the world’s biggest economy before the end of the decade after outperforming its rival during the global Covid-19 pandemic, according to a report. The Centre for Economics and Business Research said that it nowexpected the value of China’s economy when measured in dollars to exceed that of the US by 2028, half a decade sooner than it expected a year ago. In its annual league table of the growth prospects of 193 countries, the UK-based consultancy group said China had bounced back quickly from the effects of Covid-19 and would grow by 2% in 2020, as the one major global economy to expand. With the US expected to contract by 5% this year, China will narrow the gap with its biggest rival, the CEBR said. Overall, global gross domestic product is forecast to decline by 4.4% this year, in the biggest one-year fall since the second world war. Douglas McWilliams, the CEBR’s deputy chairman, said: “The big news in this forecast is the speed of growth of the Chinese economy. We expect it to become an upper-income economy during the current five-year plan period (2020-25). And we expect it to overtake the US a full five years earlier than we did a year ago.
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin so? Wealth isn't zero sum and they have like 2 billion people. I'll take a per capita wealth and income that are higher over less freedom any day.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , I'm pretty sure the Chinese already have a larger economy now than the United States.
James Adams
James Adams 7 өдрийн өмнө
Spam.
tasss550
tasss550 7 өдрийн өмнө
Min 0:00 :¨Capitalism is......¨ WHAT HE IS DEFINING IS SOCIALISM !!! hahahahah wtf !!!. I just can´t believe it. Why do socialist always put theirselves as the victims??? in a company there is no king, there is an owner that took risk to make a new company. You can start a business too, if you really want too ! don´t be afraid ! or you prefere to blaim for you ugly life to the one that is offering you a job? You are free to choose ! you are free to sign a contract ! THAT IS DEMOCRACY, not socialism.
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin I don't just have a different point of view. I bring facts and citations, while you bring communist propaganda and falsehoods. No one dictates to you when you do and do not work. See? That's right off the bat a lie. You can't post without lying because you're a propagandist. It's because I've worked for a living that I reject socialism, dumbass.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 6 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , yeah, well you have a very different point of view about certain terms compared to me. when somebody has the power to tell you when you work, when you don't work, when and how long do you get to the go to the washroom, when they can cut your wages and working hours, I call that pretty dictatorial. Maybe you don't have to work for a living. Maybe you live in your parents basement. Maybe you had everything provided for you. Just because you don't work doesn't mean that everyone else has an easy life. If I had a kid like you, I would make sure they spent a couple of years working at McDonald's or Amazon. that would probably make you more sensitive to the problems faced by the average working-class person
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin capitalist firms aren't dictatorships. Quit lying and spewing blatant bullshit. Fuck off you Marxist shill bot.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
@tasss550 , capitalist companies benefit capitalists at the expense of workers and communities. Worker-owned companies benefit the workers and communities. I love the Argentinian cooperatives! beautiful people! mnpost.info/zone/pK6eaN_XhcmReaA/video
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
@tasss550 , well that's what socialism is. if the workers own the company and are doing their own work, not paying some poor desperate people to do the work for them, capitalizing on their labour, if they're running the company collectively and democratically, then it's socialists. If the company or factory is owned by the community, then it's communist. If the company or a factory is owned by the state, then it's public. Some people consider that to be State capitalism other people considered to be a form of State socialism. and yes, a private company is the dictatorship. the owner is the king. He gets to decide when you work, when you don't work, how hard you have to work, how much money you make, they can even tell you when and how long you get to go to the washroom. That is a dictatorship. Yes, there is a difference between a wage slave and a chattel slave. The wage slave is given monetary compensation and can choose who is exploiter is. The chattel slave is owned outright. Capitalism is a modern form of slavery. The slaves have to feed and clothe and educate themselves. They are provided wages so they can do that instead of the owner actually providing housing and clothing, Etc. There are many institutional forms of public and social ownership. For example, >>> Forms of social production: • State-owned Enterprises (SOEs) corporations are owned directly by a government (National or sub-national), and operate according to a mandate that may include social criteria. In advanced capitalist countries many SOEs have been privatized under neoliberalism. But many still operate successfully (in diverse Industries including manufacturing, Communications, Transportation, utilities, and resources), accounting for up to 5% of total GDP in some OCED countries. Examples of successful wholly or partially -owned SOEs include Volkswagen (Germany), State Oil (Norway), EDF group (France), and Metsahalltus (Finland). In many developing and former communist countries (including China, Brazil, Russia and Vietnam) SOEs are much more important. • producer cooperatives. A producer Co-operative is owned collectively and equally by the people who work in it, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote." Cooperatives are one of the most common forms of nonprofit Enterprises. There are hundreds of thousands of cooperatives in the world; the United Nations estimates that half the world's population are members or customers of a Cooperative. Examples of successful producer cooperatives include Fonterra (New Zealand's largest Dairy producer), the ReWe Group (a major tourism company in Germany), Huawei (a giant Chinese electronics manufacturer, 99% owned by its workers), and Japan's Farm sector where over 90% of the Farmers belong to cooperatives). Strong networks of producer cooperatives are the dominant economic structure in Spain's Mondragon region and Italy's Emilia-Romagna region. • Consumer Cooperatives. A consumer Cooperative is owned collectively and equally by the people who buy its products, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote." Many retail cooperatives are formed to help consumers obtain lower prices and challenge the market power of private retailers. In Denmark over one-third of all retail sales are conducted through cooperatives. The E.Leclerc Cooperative operates over 500 supermarkets in France. Canada's Mountain Equipment Co-op runs the country's largest retail Network for outdoor recreation products. • Recovered companies. Workers in a bankrupt company effectively expropriate the Enterprise and attempt to keep it in business. In the years after the 2001 financial crisis in Argentina, over 200 bankrupt factories were taken over by their workers, who continue to operate them (with some government support for refinancing). 2013 law in Bolivia gives workers the explicit legal authority to take over filled firms. • Community Trusts. A Community Trust is a non-profit Corporation, usually exempt from normal business taxes, created to purchase and development land, housing, and other Community Asset. There are over 250 Community Land Trust operating in the US, with the explicit mission to undertake affordable housing develop, Environmental Conservation, and local job creation on lands that they own. Governance is based on a shared model that includes lessees and elected local representatives. • Benefit corporations. A benefit Corporation is owned by private shareholders, but obliged by its Charter to pursue social and environmental goals in addition to profit. "B Lab" is an association which publishes an annual Global ranking of successful benefit corporations. Recent recognized firms include Echele! a tu casa (a benefit corporation based in Mexico City which develops low-cost housing for residents of poor neighborhoods), and Give Something Back (a major office supply company in California with a Community Development mandate). • Community and nonprofit Enterprises. Jobs in especially hard-hit regions and communities can be created by nonprofit Community Development agencies, drawing on local resources including training, housing and alternative Finance. Community Economic Development (CED) is an "up by the bootstraps" effort to mobilize local resources that would otherwise idle, providing local Services, developing infrastructure, and providing unemployed people with job experience and training. Decentralized CED initiatives can be important in many developing economies, and in poor or remote regions of developed countries. Some entire communities have been founded and sustained on Cooperative principles in many countries. >>>> Forms of socialized Finance: • public banks. Public banks are owned by national or sub-national levels of government; they take deposits, issue loans ( create credit), and facilitate financial transactions. Public banking is widespread in many parts of the world. Countries in which publicly- owned banks play a major role include Japan (the Japan Post Bank is the largest Savings Bank in the world), Germany (with two parallel networks of public Banks: Sparkassen and Landesbanken), and China (where are the state-owned banking system helped China completely avoid the 2008 - 09 World recession). • Credit unions and Cooperative Banks. Credit unions and other Cooperative banks are owned by their members, and govern according to "one person, one vote." there are at least 60,000 credit unions and Cooperative banks in the world, with trillions of dollars in Combined assets; they are the most developed and Powerful form of cooperative enterprise. Large credit unions are important Financial players in many countries, including: Netherlands (the huge Rabobank has 60,000 employees and 750 billion in assets), and France (three major cooperative bank federations account for almost half of all consumer banking), Sweden (the JAK Bank makes loans without charging interest at all), and Canada (the Desjardins credit union movement is the largest financial institution in Quebec). • Investment and development Banks. Publicly-owned investment Banks specialize in targeted lending and investing in key companies (including private companies)with strategic economic importance. State-owned investment or development Banks play an important role in sector development policy and many countries, including France, the Nordic countries, Japan, and Brazil. Singapore's Temasek Holdings was established to foster broad economic and industrial development there; it partially owns over 50 companies, and is consistently profitable. • Social investment funds and Foundations. These Financial funds are mandated to make investments in various firms or social Enterprises, in accordance with a broader social man, while still learning and adequate or Target rate of return. The solidarity fund is a 10 billion investment fund established by the Quebec Federation of Labor in Canada to invest in businesses which contribute to Quebec's economic and social development. RSF social Finance is a non-profit financial institution , (founded in 1936) focus on lending to nonprofit and social Enterprises in the US. Oxfam UK has started an Enterprise Development Program to channel financial investments to social enterprises in 20 developing countries. Alaska Native Corporations are collectively owned entities founded with Native resource revenues, to invest in a range of businesses and development projects; their collective revenues exceed 10 billion per year. • Sovereign wealth. These funds are owned by a national government, funded with state revenues (often from resource production); they invest in strategic businesses and / or generate future investment income to fund public pensions and other public programs. Sovereign wealth has grown rapidly in recent years, and now totals over US$ 5 trillion in Investments. Petroleum producing countries have been most aggressive in creating these funds (to save nonrenewable wealth for future uses), but some non-petroleum countries have established Sovereign funds as well (such as Korea, China and Singapore). The largest fund is Norway's government pension fund, with assets approaching US$ 1 trillion; it single-handedly owns about 2% of All European corporate shares. • Microcredit. Microlending is undertaken on a nonprofit or cost-recovery basis, with a focus on small loans to households and small producers
elizbar archvadze
elizbar archvadze 8 өдрийн өмнө
Does not richard sounds like justice scalia? 😀
Jew Hitler
Jew Hitler 8 өдрийн өмнө
Two words: Economic nationalism
Joseph Joy
Joseph Joy 4 өдрийн өмнө
He'll yeah
Shane Bennett
Shane Bennett 8 өдрийн өмнө
Do you like the device you're watching this debate on in your comfortable clothes and warm house? Thank Capitalism. Never underestimate the power of incentive. Socialism we'd all be collectively poor. I'd rather be the poorest person in a first world country today than the richest in anytime before 1950. Thanks Capitalism
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin thanks for proving that you're a lying paid shill. I literally predicted you would spam that exact bullshit and you did. More lies and propaganda.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
Thanking capitalism for your computer and prosperity is like thanking slavery for cotton. You don't need capitalism in order to have jobs, Innovation, businesses, markets, people selling and trading with one another, Etc. There was more innovation in Nazi Germany and stalinist Russia. Is that a justification for fascism? Capitalism and actually stifles innovation. Many experts believe that we would have a type 1 Civilization by now if it weren't for capitalism. Capitalism also squanders one of its greatest resources, human potential. 80% of the world's population subsists on less than $10 a day and can't go to school. Chances are of Albert Einstein were born today, he'd be stuck somewhere flipping burgers. 😀 There's a worker Cooperative in Spain where a hundred and twenty thousand workers own their own high-tech Research Laboratories, Hospital, factories, University, Etc. Their research and development department is so Advanced they get contracts with Intel, Ford Motor Company and Microsoft. Just to name a few. You don't need capitalism for innovation. statistically speaking, at socially owned companies, workers are happier, more creative, more efficient, they take less sick days, there's less incidence of depression, mental illness, suicide, substance abuse, Etc. Study number 1: Virginie Perotin's research** which looked at two decades worth of international data, shows that worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses. "The idea that employees can run their own firms might sound unrealistic to some. This study looks at international data on worker-owned and run businesses in Europe, the US and Latin America and compares them with conventional businesses. It also reviews international statistical studies on the firms’ productivity, survival, investment and responsiveness. It finds that worker co-operatives represent a serious business alternative and bring significant benefits to their employees and to the economy. There are thousands of worker-run businesses in Europe, employing several hundred thousand people in a broad range of industries, from traditional manufacturing to the creative and high-tech industries. Because worker co-operatives are owned and run by them, employees in worker-owned co-operatives have far more say in the business, from day-to-day concerns through to major strategic issues. The largest study comparing the productivity of worker co-operatives with that of conventional businesses finds that in several industries, conventional companies would produce more with their current levels of employment and capital if they behaved like employee-owned firms. When market conditions change worker cooperatives review wages first and keep employment more stable. In a downturn worker co-operatives drop wages rather than reducing their workforce. When business picks up they are ready to respond and can make up for lost pay because employees enjoy a share of profit." The main findings from the analysis and review are: • Worker co-operatives are larger than conventional businesses and not necessarily less capital intensive. • Worker co-operatives survive at least as long as other businesses and have more stable employment. • Worker cooperatives are more productive than conventional businesses, with staff working “better and smarter” and production organised more efficiently. • Worker co-operatives retain a larger share of their profits than other business models. • Executive and non-executive pay differentials are much narrower in worker co-operatives than other firms. ** "Virginie Pérotin is Professor of Economics at Leeds University Business School and specialises in the effects of firm ownership and governance on performance, worker co-operatives, employee ownership and profit sharing. Previous academic and research roles include positions at the International Labour Office, the London School of Economics and the Centre d’Etude des Revenus et des Coûts (CERC) in the French Prime Minister’s Office in Paris. Professor Pérotin has also acted as a consultant to the European Commission, World Bank and OECD on issues of profit-sharing, employee ownership and employee involvement schemes." Here is a link to the research data www.uk.coop/sites/default/files/uploads/attachments/worker_co-op_report.pdf Study number 2: This study by The Democracy Collaborative found that in the US, worker cooperatives can increase worker incomes by 70-80%, and that they can grow 2% faster a year than other businesses. This data also showed that worker coops have 9-19% greater levels of productivity, 45% lower turnover rates, and are 30% less likely to fail in the first few years of operation! democracycollaborative.org/content/worker-cooperatives-pathways-scale Study number 3: This study of worker cooperatives in Italy, the UK, and France found “positive” relationships with productivity. It also found that worker cooperatives do not become less productive as they get larger. One 1995 study of worker cooperatives in the timber industry in Washington, USA found that “co-ops are more efficient than the principal conventional firms by between 6 and 14 percent”. www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/1995/01/1995_bpeamicro_craig.pdf Study number 4: An in-depth study of the Mondragon Corporation released today (5 April 2017) reveals how a large global business thrives because it’s owned by its workers, caps the gap between the highest and lowest paid, and has built an ecosystem around itself. www.uk.coop/newsroom/new-report-highlights-lessons-worlds-largest-worker-co-op Now you compare that with capitalist Enterprises where where the pay disparity between the top and the bottom is as high as 312 times! CEOs and shareholders do not Work 312 times harder then the actual workers themselves. These disparities only exist in dictatorial capitalist companies where workers have no control. And that's why in Flint Michigan the workers at the Ford Motor Company plant we're forced to poison their own water supply. It's why they had no choice when production was moved offshore. Those kind of problems do not exist or happen in workplace democracies. www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/16/ceo-versus-worker-wage-american-companies-pay-gap-study-2018 ▪︎ Worldwide, cooperatives represent well over $3 trillion in turnover, 12.6 million in employment, and over a billion people in total membership. www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/2014/coopsegm/grace.pdf ▪︎ In the United States the cooperative sector represents over $500 billion in revenues and employs about two million people reic.uwcc.wisc.edu/sites/all/REIC_FINAL.pdf 1. For example, these assembly line workers make $65,000 a year for putting bread into a bag! mnpost.info/zone/YrzKmavcr8hqnII/video 2. People feel United and actually look forward to going to work! That makes them more creative and productive. mnpost.info/zone/pK6eaN_XhcmReaA/video 3. Worker cooperatives are more productive than normal companies www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-more-productive-than-normal-companies/ 4. More resilience, productivity, and equality. lindsayadvocate.ca/worker-cooperatives-a-path-to-equality/ 5. Democratic workplaces are far superior to capitalist corporations! cooperativesfirst.com/blog/2017/09/11/2017911how-co-operatives-are-better-than-corporations/ 6. People have more money, people are happier, people are more productive and more creative, and they feel more connected to their communities and environment. mnpost.info/zone/mtOfkLbcfLeEm6A/video 7. The Italian Region Where Co-ops Produce a Third of Its GDP www.yesmagazine.org/economy/2016/07/05/the-italian-place-where-co-ops-drive-the-economy-and-most-people-are-members/ 8. pandemic crash shows worker cooperatives are more resilient than traditional businesses. Worker co-ops are a more sustainable form of business, sharing benefits in the good times and burdens in the hard times. truthout.org/articles/pandemic-crash-shows-worker-co-ops-are-more-resilient-than-traditional-business/ 9. Cooperatives power almost 60% of the United States land mass www.electric.coop/electric-cooperative-fact-sheet/ 10. "The 29,284 cooperative firms operating in the US generate over 2 million jobs and create more than $74 billion in wages annually according to a study conducted by the University of Wisconsin Center for Cooperatives, with support from the United States Department of Agriculture Rural Development. They represent 1% of USA Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and account for more than $654 billion in revenue. These cooperative businesses contribute with $133.5 billion in income and $3 trillion in assets, and provide products and services across the country in every sector of the economy." "US cooperatives’ contribution to the national and local economies can be measured in both financial and non financial ways. They keep profits local, pay local taxes to help support community services, take part in community improvement programs and provide services for a large numbrer of people in the country regardless of their income levels or geographic location." Key points to highlight about American cooperatives: • There are 120 million cooperative members. • 92 million U.S. consumers are member owners of, and receive all or part of their financial services from the nation’s nearly 8,200 credit unions. • More than 900 electric cooperatives deliver electricity in the United States to 42 million people in 47 states.
James Adams
James Adams 7 өдрийн өмнө
Wait for the Marxist shill to come in and lie, claiming that the government did that and not capitalism. Never mind the actual facts of the case. Mappin will be here to lie about it.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 8 өдрийн өмнө
As democratic governments around the world reacted with horror to President Trump supporters’ storming of the Capitol, China’s officials could barely contain their schadenfreude. If you don’t allow the storming of your own legislature, they asked, how could you support it in Hong Kong?
Buzz Law
Buzz Law 8 өдрийн өмнө
why is it that socialist are so effing angry?
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin workers always get the full value of their labor. Quit lying you shill piece of shit. mises.org/library/bohm-bawerks-critique-exploitation-theory-interest
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin "There's no reason whatsoever that every person on Earth couldn't have a very high standard of living." There's you being an economically ignorant dipshit, spamming nonsense because you don't know what you're talking about. Shut the fuck up and go away. You're a paid Marxist shill who only copies and pastes the same bullshit over and over again. No argument based on any actual data.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
@Buzz Law , mnpost.info/zone/hq2Wfc3Sf8d4rZQ/video
Buzz Law
Buzz Law 7 өдрийн өмнө
your not wrong there
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
@Buzz Law , I'm not sure what you mean. Attack? Equality? it's not about equality. It's about workers and communities owning their own resources and the product of their labour. It's about becoming independent so one doesn't need to be a wage slave. Capitalist companies mostly benefit capitalists. Usually at the expense of workers and communities. Worker-owned and community-owned factories and work places mostly benefit communities and workers. that's why an assembly line worker can make $70,000 a year at a Cooperative but not at a capitalist company. When the workers get the full value of their labour, then they have more money to spend into the economy. That is more conducive to a free market and thriving economy. When you increase purchasing power, the economy expands. When you erode purchasing power, which capitalism does, then the economy will contract unless credit is pumped into the system. you see, hypothetically speaking, if 50% of the wealth goes to shareholders rather than the actual workers and producers, then the workers are only going to be able to afford 50% of what they produce. Capitalism violates basic market and economic principles. That's one reason why Adam Smith was anti-capitalist. Markets require economic democracy. You can't have a free market under economic feudalism. when workers and communities own their own capital, then they get most of the control and benefit. that's why capitalists do everything they can to expand privatization. That's why gene Epstein, the person conducting the debate, is a member of the state policy Network. they are the reason why most things are made in China and why so many of your resources and Public Utilities have been privatized.
Buzz Law
Buzz Law 8 өдрийн өмнө
the key is that the masters understand the utility in respecting the server. Socialism loses all steam because it's about scapegoating. the system has only on chance and that revolution must come from the top. upheaval only replaces the top
Meron Esho
Meron Esho 8 өдрийн өмнө
Thats because we are a constitutional republic, not a democracy
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Meron Esho oh yeah, he just keeps spamming outright lies no matter how much evidence you give him.
Meron Esho
Meron Esho 6 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams probably, but I've seen people who believe this shit regardless of the countless amount of evidence
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Meron Esho not possible, since he's been given proof repeatedly. He lies and he even knows he is lying at this point.
Meron Esho
Meron Esho 6 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams I don't know if thats true though. I hope thats the case, because if its not, it would mean he actually believes what he says, and thats kinda sad.
James Adams
James Adams 6 өдрийн өмнө
@Meron Esho don't bother. He's a Marxist shill who has been spamming blatant lies on here for over a year, nearly every day, because he's paid to do so. He doesn't care about truth or history or economics. He's here to lie about all of that and peddle communism.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a spamming lying Marxist propagandist. He doesn't read sources and doesn't care when you disprove him. He's going to lie all the same. He's been spamming this comments section for over a year without outright lies, and he runs from comment to comment instead of having any single discussion for very long. When he does people quickly see him as the lying spammer that he is.
Tinh Si
Tinh Si 9 өдрийн өмнө
Let just say whatever side the moderator is on, im on the opposite side just to be right.
Gurbaj Musafar
Gurbaj Musafar 9 өдрийн өмнө
Socialism has been tried in over 20 countries and it has failed, why the fuck try it again.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin quit lying spamming shill. Yes it absolutely has failed in the US. Regulatory capture is awful. The government education system is awful. Government monopoly over healthcare is awful. Government monopoly over police and military are awful.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 8 өдрийн өмнө
it hasn't failed in the United States. There are regions in Europe where 44% of the GDP come from socially owned and community-owned cooperatives. "if you’re, say, a journeyman, a craftsman, and you sell your product, you’re selling what you produced. If you’re a wage earner, you’re selling yourself, which is deeply offensive. They condemned what they called the new spirit of the age: gain wealth, forgetting all but self." "We might just consider the matter of wage labor. It’s pretty hard to remember maybe, but if you go back to the early industrial revolutions, the late 19th century, wage labor was considered essentially the same as slavery. The only difference was that it was supposed to be temporary. That was a slogan of the Republican party: opposition to wage slavery. Why should some people give orders and others take them? That’s essentially the relation of a master and a slave, even if it could be temporary. If you look back at the labor movement in the late 19th century, you see it had a rich array of worker-owned, worker-directed media: worker-written newspapers all over the place, and many of them by women-the so-called “factory girls” in textile plants. Attack on wage labor was constant. The slogan was, “Those who work in the mills should own them.” They opposed the degradation and undermining of culture that was part of the forced industrialization of the society. They began to link up with the radical agrarian movement. It was mostly still an agrarian society, the farmers groups that wanted to get rid of the northeastern bankers and merchants and run their own affairs. It was a really radical democratic moment. There were worker-run cities, like Homestead, Pennsylvania, a main industrial center. A lot of that was destroyed by force, but I again think it’s just below the surface, can rise easily again." ~ Noam Chomsky chomsky.info/theres-a-huge-desire-to-revamp-our-exploitive-economy-bubbling-in-the-collective-unconscious/ "The capitalist revolution instituted a crucial change from price to wage. When the producer sold his product for a price, Ware writes, “he retained his person. But when he came to sell his labor, he sold himself,” and lost his dignity as a person as he became a slave - a “wage slave,” the term commonly used. Wage labor was considered similar to chattel slavery, though differing in that it was temporary - in theory. That understanding was so widespread that it became a slogan of the Republican Party, advocated by its leading figure, Abraham Lincoln." What is the difference between a wage slave and a chattel slave? The chattel slave is sold once and for all; the wage slave must sell himself daily and hourly. "The chattel slave is the property of one master, and is assured an existence, however miserable it may be, because of the master’s interest. The individual wage slave, property as it were of the entire capitalist class which buys his labor only when someone has need of it, has no secure existence. This existence is assured only to the class as a whole. The chattel slave is outside competition; the wage slave is in it and experiences all its vagaries." when you work as an employee, the boss tells you when you work, how hard you have to work, Etc. they can cut your wages, your working hours, they can even tell you when and how long you get to go to the washroom. "There are serious barriers to overcome in the struggle for justice, freedom, and dignity, even beyond the bitter class war conducted ceaselessly by the highly class-conscious business world with the “indispensable support” of the governments they largely control. Ware discusses some of these insidious threats as they were understood by working people. He reports the thinking of skilled workers in New York 170 years ago, who repeated the common view that a daily wage is a form of slavery and warned perceptively that a day might come when wage slaves “will so far forget what is due to manhood as to glory in a system forced on them by their necessity and in opposition to their feelings of independence and self-respect.” They hoped that that day would be “far distant.” Today, signs of it are common, but demands for independence, self-respect, personal dignity, and control of one’s own work and life, like Marx’s old mole, continue to burrow not far from the surface, ready to reappear when awakened by circumstances and militant activism." chomsky.info/nothing-for-other-people-class-war-in-the-united-states/ "Mass public education is one of the great achievements of American society. It has had many dimensions. One purpose was to prepare independent farmers for life as wage laborers who would tolerate what they regarded as virtual slavery." chomsky.info/20141201/ "The school, church, TV, & press are used to foster the ideology of the ruling class & indoctrinate the worker into accepting their system as the most natural permanent form of society." -- Rob Sewell "As I mentioned, public mass education was a major achievement, in which the US was a pioneer. But it had complex characteristics, rooted in the sharp class conflicts of the day. One goal was to induce farmers to give up their independence and submit themselves to industrial discipline and accept what they regarded as wage slavery. That did not pass without notice. Ralph Waldo Emerson observed that political leaders of his day were calling for popular education. He concluded that their motivation was fear. The country was filling up with millions of voters and the Masters realized that one had to therefore “educate them, to keep them from (our) throats.”" chomsky.info/the-common-good/ Adam Smith: "People read snippets of Adam Smith, the few phrases they teach in school. Everybody reads the first paragraph of The Wealth of Nations where he talks about how wonderful the division of labor is. But not many people get to the point hundreds of pages later, where he says that division of labor will destroy human beings and turn people into creatures as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human being to be. And therefore in any civilized society the government is going to have to take some measures to prevent division of labor from proceeding to its limits." • Noam Chomsky (1995) Class Warfare, p. 19-23. From "In the progress of the division of labour, the employment of the far greater part of those who live by labour, that is, of the great body of the people, comes to be confined to a few very simple operations, frequently to one or two. But the understandings of the greater part of men are necessarily formed by their ordinary employments. The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations, of which the effects are perhaps always the same, or very nearly the same, has no occasion to exert his understanding or to exercise his invention in finding out expedients for removing difficulties which never occur. He naturally loses, therefore, the habit of such exertion, and generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become. The torpor of his mind renders him not only incapable of relishing or bearing a part in any rational conversation, but of conceiving any generous, noble, or tender sentiment, and consequently of forming any just judgment concerning many even of the ordinary duties of private life. Of the great and extensive interests of his country he is altogether incapable of judging, and unless very particular pains have been taken to render him otherwise, he is equally incapable of defending his country in war." ~ Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations page 410 www.ultimorecurso.org.ar/drupi/files/Adam%20Smith%20%27The%20Wealth%20of%20Nations%27.pdf
James Adams
James Adams 9 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a paid Marxist shill who lies for a living. His latest lie in the face of data proving him wrong is to claim that working hours haven't been reduced when he's already been presented with data on that. Here it is for yourself. Watch him try to lie about it again. ourworldindata.org/working-hours
James Adams
James Adams 3 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin notice how you couldn't give one single historical example and then run off after smearing the source? That's because you're a shill and not a good faith participant.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin now you're spamming Marxist bullshit from noted propaganda outlet Gravel. If you had any shame then you wouldn't use them again, but you're a paid shill, so you have no honesty whatsoever just like Richard Wolff. Not only is $1.90 the accepted international poverty line. The UN isn't a source for what is and isn't poverty, and Wolff knows this but lies to peddle propaganda like you do. He also knows that poverty has decreased at MULTIPLE poverty lines, not just the $1.90 level. And he again lies by claiming that socialism brought China out of poverty. In fact, China went more capitalist over the period in which its poverty declined. So clearly you're both lying to peddle this nonsense.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin yeah, like the Tom Woods segment that you never argued against and only smeared. Oh, so you now decided to finally review source material? "He claims that with the market entrepreneurs there's nothing to be upset about and that they have never done anything to harm us. Well, that is a blatant lie! That position is both a-historical and empirically false" Nope, it's 100% accurate but you don't like it. This is beacuse you're a Marxist spammer who just says "of course..." and then just repeats the bullshit you said previously. "I don't know how anyone could even make such a statement while keeping a straight face. History is replete with examples" No, it isn't, and you didn't give any. This is you again appealing to incredulity. "and who is Burton Folsom? He works for and gets his money from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy! They are a member of the state policy Network." Once again reverting to smears because you have shown you don't have any argument. Thanks for proving that you're a paid shill bot who cannot argue in good faith. You had absolutely no argument of substance and even your pathetic attempt at one provides no evidence to support it, just assertions.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 8 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , you mean like that Tom Woods lecture? at the 7-minute Mark he establishes false dichotomy and and engages in black and white thinking. he quotes Burton Folsom, saying that you have political entrepreneurs and Market entrepreneurs. He claims that with the market entrepreneurs there's nothing to be upset about and that they have never done anything to harm us. Well, that is a blatant lie! That position is both a-historical and empirically false. I don't know how anyone could even make such a statement while keeping a straight face. History is replete with examples. And then he says next that the only reason we could possibly have for disliking entrepreneurs is out of sheer envy. Then he says that we should never underestimate the power of envy. and who is Burton Folsom? He works for and gets his money from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy! They are a member of the state policy Network. Do you have any idea who those people are and what they've done? So Thomas Woods is directing people toward material written by individuals that are employed by Mackinac Center! That's kind of like telling a black man that he should read material produced by the KKK, because they love you.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin nah, you're a dishonest piece of shit. You have to earn respect, and you haven't earned any. You've repeatedly smeared sources you don't like instead of addressing them and repeatedly lied when proven wrong with said sources. You're a piece of shit.
CommunistRedFlag
CommunistRedFlag 10 өдрийн өмнө
mnpost.info/zone/nrXIqMzXmbF2mnI/video What Have American Unions Ever Done For Us? mnpost.info/zone/o6u5iL3BqbeMsHI/video How Amazon Fends Off Unions
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
OP created account on Jan 6, 2021. Just to come here and spam this communist propaganda.
James Adams
James Adams 9 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin it's literal propaganda you dumbass. Thanks for spamming it like the brain dead dipshit you are. Unions didn't bring the weekend. Move On is leftist propaganda designed to lie. Just like you do for a living.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 9 өдрийн өмнө
Great videos! Thank you for taking the time to post them. ❤
El_Padrón_17
El_Padrón_17 10 өдрийн өмнө
Bernie on Bernie crime
Queer Melancholy
Queer Melancholy 10 өдрийн өмнө
1:27:33 IS when it gets interesting IMO.
James Adams
James Adams 10 өдрийн өмнө
Michael Mappin is a spamming lying Marxist propagandist. He doesn't read sources and doesn't care when you disprove him. He's going to lie all the same.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Focused Studying sorry that YT is deleting comments. It gets very annoying. Many times I don't get notifications either. Billionaires don't decide everything. Nor is anyone advocating for that here. No part of the economic knowledge I am advancing here is saying that rich people are a priori good or that they could do no wrong. What I'm saying is that the labor theory of value and exploitation of labor are wrong. That's a fact. You can either accept it or peddle socialist propaganda and be wrong. It's a fact that no one is stealing your labor from you when they exchange a wage for your labor.
Focused Studying
Focused Studying 8 өдрийн өмнө
​@James Adams The study of economics is one of the most important fields, indeed. But you don't think it's curious that, in a world where billionaires decide everything, the only accepted parts of economic theories are those that say "billionaires are the best thing that ever happened to you, be grateful you can serve them, because it makes you happy too." Really? How about we go out and at least read the other economic theories too.
Focused Studying
Focused Studying 8 өдрийн өмнө
Geat MNpost is deleting my comments.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Focused Studying no dipshit, the study of economics isn't mere opinion. It's what is shown through empirical evidence. We don't live in a "capitalist regime" because there is no such thing. We live in a mixed economy.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Focused Studying I get it, you're a leftist clown who has read Graeber without any second thought about its criticisms. Again, capitalists DO contribute to society, dumbass.
Resto In Presto
Resto In Presto 10 өдрийн өмнө
POV: You're here looking for valid arguments and just seeing everyone hate the Mod
Jimpa
Jimpa Өдрийн өмнө
the mod really shouldn't have that job though lol
Jon Leszczynski
Jon Leszczynski 10 өдрийн өмнө
The ignorance of the Socialist speaker is awful. Even more awful is that he teaches that ignorance to others. COSTS are a reality. Socialism doesn't have downturns because it never really has an upturn! The world cannot afford to suffer from all the bad experiments it will take before socialism may get to a point beyond where Capitalism (which is ALSO improving) is. And there is democracy in the work place. People are not serfs, they can go work wherever they want, and they can even be their own boss. You won't find teachers teaching MARXIST economics anymore because it has been a demonstrable failure. Instructors in economics DO, however, cover Marxist theory and the history associated with it. My kids have both had this covered in their economics classes they have just been through in college. WWII was between SOCIALISM (The Nazi's were, absolutely socialists!) and you even had Socialism on the allied side (USSR anyone?) and you can counterpose that against the Capitalist societies, which won, in great part, because the Capitalist society of the USA could outproduce all the rest of the world!
Jon Leszczynski
Jon Leszczynski 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin ditto.... if you take time to actually think.
James Adams
James Adams 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin "dude, United States spends more money on propaganda that all other countries combined." And your source for this is...what? Your employer? "Pointing that out is not a smear." No, but trying to undermine your opponent on baseless claims that they're being paid to lie when you can't even argue against what they're saying in the first place IS a smear, and it's what you've been doing for over a year solid. " It is a legitimate argument. You don't even know what an argument is." Nope, you're projecting again, dumbass. You don't know what an argument is. You've been spamming blatant lies and then running to the next comment when it's proven that you're wrong. You lied about real wages, claiming that they didn't go up. I provided proof that they did. You lied about working hours, claiming they went up. I provided proof that they went down. You lied about economics, claiming that profits are taken from labor. I provided numerous citations proving that wrong. You claimed Joe Biden wasn't even on the left. I proved that wrong with citations and you're still lying about it. "Gene Epstein's job is the cell people on privatization and capitalism." And your job and Wolff's job is to sell Marxist propaganda and lies. Yet we have evidence to support Gene Epstein's claims. Neither you nor Wolff provide citations. You both just keep lying.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Jon Leszczynski , okay, well I'm confident that you'll be able to work everything out. 😉
Jon Leszczynski
Jon Leszczynski 5 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin anyone who talks political science 101 knows and understands that for the last century that left wing has meant liberal and right wing conservative. And, it even meant that back when it was first created as the opposed to the monarchy were liberal equivalent and those in support were conservative equivalent... practically by definition of the terms.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 5 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , dude, United States spends more money on propaganda that all other countries combined. Just like with the expenditure on The military. Pointing that out is not a smear. It's a fact. you should know that when Industries such as the tobacco industry hires professional speakers, doctors, pays for quasi scientific studies , they're doing it because they have an agenda. Pointing that out is not a smear. It is a legitimate argument. You don't even know what an argument is. Gene Epstein's job is the cell people on privatization and capitalism. Do you think the oil industry and banking industry funds him because they care about you and your family? Yeah, just like the tobacco industry cares about your health.
Will Lane
Will Lane 10 өдрийн өмнө
Why is the moderator so eager to stop people from talking? God it's so annoying.
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin no, the more people start to read history and economics the worse you appear as a lying paid shill peddling Marxist propaganda. Let's review some of the lies that you spammed out over the course of the last year that you've been commenting here: 1. You claimed that workers aren't getting paid the full value of their labor. This was debunked numerous times by showing that value is subjective and that the Marxist labor theory of value is wrong. You still lie about it. 2. You claimed that real wages have been stagnant. This was debunked numerous times and with multiple sources showing it to be wrong. You still lie about it. 3. You claim that working hours haven't went down after being shown numerous times that they have. You still lie about this. 4. You claimed that Richard Wolff's idea of socialism "doesn't have anything to do with the government" and the timestamp of 1:30:00 was repeatedly shown to you which shows this to be a lie. You still lie about this.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 9 өдрийн өмнө
@Will Lane me too
Will Lane
Will Lane 9 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin I hope more people start to read some political theory
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 9 өдрийн өмнө
@Will Lane , yeah, he certainly wasn't very popular. 😀 maybe he's related to Epstein. more and more people are learning about socialism and as a result The Cooperative sector is expanding mnpost.info/zone/hq2Wfc3Sf8d4rZQ/video
Will Lane
Will Lane 9 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin I learned a lot about socialism from this debate and all he got out of it was people disliking him
Gavin O'Connor
Gavin O'Connor 10 өдрийн өмнө
wolff is a very gifted orator.
James Adams
James Adams 9 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin no, I know it because he said things that are factually incorrect. You're a paid liar too. You literally just got done claiming that working hours haven't gone down when you've been proven wrong on it. You're a paid liar. ourworldindata.org/working-hours
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 9 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , you think that because he triggers your cognitive dissonance.
James Adams
James Adams 10 өдрийн өмнө
And a huge liar.
Jacob R
Jacob R 11 өдрийн өмнө
What is freedom and liberty to a slave?
James Adams
James Adams 8 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin shut the fuck up, shill. I know exactly what I'm saying. The Nazis were socialists and Joe Biden is on the left. I've sourced this multiple times. You'd have to be a paid shill to keep lying about this. mises.org/wire/yes-nazis-were-socialists "Points 10 and 11 of the program declare: The first obligation of every citizen must be to productively work mentally or physically. The activity of individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the framework of the whole for the benefit for the general good. We demand therefore: Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery." Point 14 is “We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.” Crucially, point 24 is We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: “The good of the community before the good of the individual”. The Nazi regime did not have any scruples to apply force and terror, if that was judged useful to attain its aims. And in economic policy it did not abstain from numerous regulations and interventions in markets, in order to further rearmament and autarky as far as possible. Thus the regime, by promulgating Schacht’s so-called “New Plan” in 1934, very much strengthened its influence on foreign exchange as well as on raw materials’ allocation, in order to enforce state priorities. Wage-setting became a task of public officials, the capital market was reserved for state demand, a general price stop decreed in 1936. In addition state demand expanded without precedent. Between 1932 and 1938 it increased with an average annual rate of 26 per cent; its share in GNP exploded in these years from 13.6 to 30.5 percent. As a consequence private consumption as well as exports were largely crowded out." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden "Over his career, Biden has generally been regarded as belonging to the mainstream of the Democratic Party.[5][6] Biden has been described as center-left[7] and has described himself as such." I've went over the policies multiple times. Only far-left lunatics disagree with this. And because you're a paid shill you're not even reading to the end of this and will predictably compare Mises to Alex Jones (despite them having no similarity), because instead of dealing with the factual claims which refute you, you are a shill bot who is paid to smear and spam.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 9 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams , do you have any idea how you sound? You think that Nazis were socialists. You think Joe Biden is on the left side of the political Spectrum. next you'll be saying the Earth is flat
Focused Studying
Focused Studying 9 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams Starving people are a leftist thing now? You know you can be in favour of an ideology and still not deny basic realities. Especially those you can check by just getting on a plane once in your life. Or driving to a next neighbourhood. Capitalism also has it's flaws, no need to pretend it's absolutely perfect. No system is absolutely perfect. That simply doesn't exist.
Focused Studying
Focused Studying 9 өдрийн өмнө
@James Adams I understand having a debate of socialism vs capitalism with pro and counter arguments. And I myself am more on the side of capitalism. But man you are you completely living in an alternative utopian reality that you created in your head.
James Adams
James Adams 9 өдрийн өмнө
@Focused Studying yep, largely the people leftists call "sweatshop" workers make more money than their previous jobs paid, typically about twice as much as before.
Communist Punk
Communist Punk 11 өдрийн өмнө
“History of Capitalism and Slavery,” white supremacy as the greatest economic engine of American Capitalism. www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/25/is-capitalism-racist
BOKEH Trente-Cinq
BOKEH Trente-Cinq 11 өдрийн өмнө
Nice capitalist opening with the socalist dude selling his book.
James Adams
James Adams 7 өдрийн өмнө
@Focused Studying your other comment disappeared, but no, I'm not ONLY rating education based on dollars in and dollars out. I'm pointing out that there are costs and benefits to the individual getting the education AND to society at large, and the costs of our current approach outweigh the benefits at BOTH LEVELS. If you think that education has a social benefit that isn't just to yourself then study on your own time instead of demanding hundreds of thousands of dollars from others. It's that simple.
Michael Mappin
Michael Mappin 7 өдрийн өмнө
@The Dude , no, merely selling your labour is not capitalism. Capitalism is only about 250 years of age. It didn't exist prior to the enclosure movement. If merely selling the product of your labour was capitalism, then that would mean capitalism would be at least 12 to 13 thousand years old. Socialism is when workers own their own company or factory. They run it collectively and democratically. Therefore they get all of the wealth that their labour produces. If those worker owners decided to go home and pay poor desperate people to do the work for them, then they would be practicing capitalism. Communism is community ownership. It is not State ownership. For example, almost 60% of the United States gets its electricity from community-owned and worker-owned electrical cooperatives. mnpost.info/zone/rKiweKnOhpV0n5Q/video the community owns the tools and equipment. Now let's say the state owns the tools and the equipment. that would be public ownership. Some people considere that to be State capitalism other people consider that to be State socialism. There are many institutional forms of public and social ownership. For example, >>> Forms of social production: • State-owned Enterprises (SOEs) corporations are owned directly by a government (National or sub-national), and operate according to a mandate that may include social criteria. In advanced capitalist countries many SOEs have been privatized under neoliberalism. But many still operate successfully (in diverse Industries including manufacturing, Communications, Transportation, utilities, and resources), accounting for up to 5% of total GDP in some OCED countries. Examples of successful wholly or partially -owned SOEs include Volkswagen (Germany), State Oil (Norway), EDF group (France), and Metsahalltus (Finland). In many developing and former communist countries (including China, Brazil, Russia and Vietnam) SOEs are much more important. • producer cooperatives. A producer Co-operative is owned collectively and equally by the people who work in it, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote." Cooperatives are one of the most common forms of nonprofit Enterprises. There are hundreds of thousands of cooperatives in the world; the United Nations estimates that half the world's population are members or customers of a Cooperative. Examples of successful producer cooperatives include Fonterra (New Zealand's largest Dairy producer), the ReWe Group (a major tourism company in Germany), Huawei (a giant Chinese electronics manufacturer, 99% owned by its workers), and Japan's Farm sector where over 90% of the Farmers belong to cooperatives). Strong networks of producer cooperatives are the dominant economic structure in Spain's Mondragon region and Italy's Emilia-Romagna region. • Consumer Cooperatives. A consumer Cooperative is owned collectively and equally by the people who buy its products, and is usually governed according to "one person, one vote." Many retail cooperatives are formed to help consumers obtain lower prices and challenge the market power of private retailers. In Denmark over one-third of all retail sales are conducted through cooperatives. The E.Leclerc Cooperative operates over 500 supermarkets in France. Canada's Mountain Equipment Co-op runs the country's largest retail Network for outdoor recreation products. • Recovered companies. Workers in a bankrupt company effectively expropriate the Enterprise and attempt to keep it in business. In the years after the 2001 financial crisis in Argentina, over 200 bankrupt factories were taken over by their workers, who continue to operate them (with some government support for refinancing). 2013 law in Bolivia gives workers the explicit legal authority to take over filled firms. • Community Trusts. A Community Trust is a non-profit Corporation, usually exempt from normal business taxes, created to purchase and development land, housing, and other Community Asset. There are over 250 Community Land Trust operating in the US, with the explicit mission to undertake affordable housing develop, Environmental Conservation, and local job creation on lands that they own. Governance is based on a shared model that includes lessees and elected local representatives. • Benefit corporations. A benefit Corporation is owned by private shareholders, but obliged by its Charter to pursue social and environmental goals in addition to profit. "B Lab" is an association which publishes an annual Global ranking of successful benefit corporations. Recent recognized firms include Echele! a tu casa (a benefit corporation based in Mexico City which develops low-cost housing for residents of poor neighborhoods), and Give Something Back (a major office supply company in California with a Community Development mandate). • Community and nonprofit Enterprises. Jobs in especially hard-hit regions and communities can be created by nonprofit Community Development agencies, drawing on local resources including training, housing and alternative Finance. Community Economic Development (CED) is an "up by the bootstraps" effort to mobilize local resources that would otherwise idle, providing local Services, developing infrastructure, and providing unemployed people with job experience and training. Decentralized CED initiatives can be important in many developing economies, and in poor or remote regions of developed countries. Some entire communities have been founded and sustained on Cooperative principles in many countries. >>>> Forms of socialized Finance: • public banks. Public banks are owned by national or sub-national levels of government; they take deposits, issue loans ( create credit), and facilitate financial transactions. Public banking is widespread in many parts of the world. Countries in which publicly- owned banks play a major role include Japan (the Japan Post Bank is the largest Savings Bank in the world), Germany (with two parallel networks of public Banks: Sparkassen and Landesbanken), and China (where are the state-owned banking system helped China completely avoid the 2008 - 09 World recession). • Credit unions and Cooperative Banks. Credit unions and other Cooperative banks are owned by their members, and govern according to "one person, one vote." there are at least 60,000 credit unions and Cooperative banks in the world, with trillions of dollars in Combined assets; they are the most developed and Powerful form of cooperative enterprise. Large credit unions are important Financial players in many countries, including: Netherlands (the huge Rabobank has 60,000 employees and 750 billion in assets), and France (three major cooperative bank federations account for almost half of all consumer banking), Sweden (the JAK Bank makes loans without charging interest at all), and Canada (the Desjardins credit union movement is the largest financial institution in Quebec). • Investment and development Banks. Publicly-owned investment Banks specialize in targeted lending and investing in key companies (including private companies)with strategic economic importance. State-owned investment or development Banks play an important role in sector development policy and many countries, including France, the Nordic countries, Japan, and Brazil. Singapore's Temasek Holdings was established to foster broad economic and industrial development there; it partially owns over 50 companies, and is consistently profitable. • Social investment funds and Foundations. These Financial funds are mandated to make investments in various firms or social Enterprises, in accordance with a broader social man, while still learning and adequate or Target rate of return. The solidarity fund is a 10 billion investment fund established by the Quebec Federation of Labor in Canada to invest in businesses which contribute to Quebec's economic and social development. RSF social Finance is a non-profit financial institution , (founded in 1936) focus on lending to nonprofit and social Enterprises in the US. Oxfam UK has started an Enterprise Development Program to channel financial investments to social enterprises in 20 developing countries. Alaska Native Corporations are collectively owned entities founded with Native resource revenues, to invest in a range of businesses and development projects; their collective revenues exceed 10 billion per year. • Sovereign wealth. These funds are owned by a national government, funded with state revenues (often from resource production); they invest in strategic businesses and / or generate future investment income to fund public pensions and other public programs. Sovereign wealth has grown rapidly in recent years, and now totals over US$ 5 trillion in Investments. Petroleum producing countries have been most aggressive in creating these funds (to save nonrenewable wealth for future uses), but some non-petroleum countries have established Sovereign funds as well (such as Korea, China and Singapore). The largest fund is Norway's government pension fund, with assets approaching US$ 1 trillion; it single-handedly owns about 2% of All European corporate shares. • Microcredit. Microlending is undertaken on a nonprofit or cost-recovery basis, with a focus on small loans to households and small producers (usually in developing countries or poor neighborhoods). The most famous microcredit institution is the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh, owned cooperatively by its Borrowers; it extends small low interest loans (mostly to women) through a participatory loan management system ( in which groups of borrowers collectively determine who receives new loans, and collectively ensure the loans are repaid). Similar systems have been introduced in other poor countries, and in some regions or neighborhoods of rich countries.
James Adams
James Adams 7 өдрийн өмнө
@Focused Studying "If you don't care at all about things I care very deeply about, and if our whole perception of money and value of life is so different, there won't really be a conclusion here." Agreed. That's why first principles matter.
The Dude
The Dude 7 өдрийн өмнө
@Michael Mappin Him profiting off his own labor is the definition of Capitalism. Now, if he were too sell the book and give away over 3/4 of the profits to his fellow citizens and pay a heavy tax on his share to his government then you could call it socialism.
Focused Studying
Focused Studying 7 өдрийн өмнө
​@James Adams If you don't care at all about things I care very deeply about, and if our whole perception of money and value of life is so different, there won't really be a conclusion here. But either way it was fun having a debate of our own in the comment section.
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